Advice on my solid kitchen benchtop plans

[Trav]

Hi all

I've been reading all the previous threads on timber benchtops, which have been really useful already. I thought I'd seek your views on my plans for timber benchtops.

We had a new t&G vic ash timber laid about 12 months ago. Looks fantastic. I've got a stack of leftover boards that I want to use to make benchtops for a new kitchen we are planning. I've already used a few boards to make benchtops for some AV cabinets I build earlier in the year.

My current thoughts on construction would be to source some 18mm HMR MDF to use as a substrate. Attach the T&G boards to this using a flooring adhesive (applied with a caulking gun) and pin using brads nailed through the tongue in a secret nail fashion (ie nailed back on an angle through the tongue so you can't see them, and they don't cause any problems in aligning the boards). I also use a food safe adhesive (titebond II) in the groove of each board. Attach a solid lip to the edge using titebond and some biscuits for easy alignment.

I've sketched out a dodgy plan (see attached). My idea was to craft the longest benchtop in a few parts. The origin of this idea was to make the part of the benchtop around the sink (including where the dishes go) separate from the other parts of the benchtop. This means that if, for some reason, water manages to get in a discolour or damage the benchtop, I should be able to replace this section only, not the whole benchtop. The island benchtop (which will be 1200 square) will be made from 2 pieces to simplify construction and allow for a bit of movement.

As for a finish, I am tossing up between tung oil (just a normal one that is mixed with poly) and a 2pac poly. Keen to hear your advice on this decision. I will paint the bottom of the MDF with some old enamel paint I have already. I was seriously considering leaving the island benchtop without any finish to allow it to be used as a chopping block etc. I already use a paint scraper to clean up my timber cutting boards - and I would do the same for the benchtop. This would allow me to lightly sand it back every 12 months or so to clean it right up.

I will butt the benchtop up to the wall, seal with silicon. Then tile the splashback with 600x300 rectolinear (ie square edged) tiles. Bottom grout will be silicon of course.

Keen to hear if you have any idea as how to improve the proposal. I have considered using veneered MDF for the long benchtops, but given I have the timber here already, I am leaning towards using the leftover t&G boards.

Trav

[Bleedin Thumb]

Trav,
I think you are headed for trouble as the timber will move and split where the nails are. Normally you only attach a timber bench to the carcass in a few places and ensure that those points are in line in the grain.
I think it may look ordinary with the joins as well.
Unless you are on a super tight budget you should be able to get those benches done in solid tassie oak, gluelam for less than $700. Give Bruce from Fentons a call.
No affiliation - I'm just a very happy customer.



http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ber#post363665

[aussiecolector]

yes none of the t&g benches I've seen have looked reel good. Ok but not reel flash. They tend to open up at the joins. You might be better just glueing the boards together and having a top 19mm thick and go real easy on the screws holding it down, maybe just along the front so when it shrinks it doesn't crack.
I have some ironbark benches I made from 40mm slabs and I didnt screw them down at all. As for finishes either you mentioned will work depending on what you want. I'm trying the tung oil on the last bench I made. If you want one unsealed rub some oil or wax or something into it to stop it drying out and keep its colour.

[ptrott]

Trav,
Our flat pack (Kitform Kitchens) carcases arrive in about 3 weeks and I am making all our doors, ( Pine lining boards in a pine frame with jarrah bead around them) tops (jarrah) and kickers (jarrah).
Like you, I was wondering how to go about the tops, so I looked closely at the old jarrah desk (20 yrs plus) that my wife has been using in the makeshift kitchen for 3 years. The top is several planks jointed with a sort of "Z" shaped route on each side of each plank to give a reasonable surface area to glue. The top is attached to the frame with wooden blocks that are screwed to the top and have a rebated lip that fits into a routed groove in the frame. This gives a good firm anchor, yet allows the top to expand and contract.

I don't think that the T&G is a good joint to use as there is always the tendency for the top bit (of the groove) to cup upwards over time because it is so thin. I would cut off the T&Gs and use Biscuit Joints, as well as glue to both edge faces, that way there is nothing thin enough to cup.

If your boards are thin (probably 19mm?) then I would fix them to a sub-strate not with glue, but with screws through the sub-strate into the tops, BUT...the screw holes should be oversize and mudguard washers used under the heads.
This is similar to what they use to hold down Lazer Light sheeting because it expands a great amount. ( They use neoprene washers though)
This will alow the screws room to move as required with expansion and contraction.

Tung Oil Finish (Wattyl, Feast & Watson etc. are just a very hard varnish with some Tung Oil added. Great for floors and cupboard doors etc. It WILL scratch.
Pure Tung Oil is different. It will darken the wood greatly. It will take a long time to Polamarize (Harden) even if you use a hardener like Terebine . I am not sure how much protection it will give to the wood regarding stains etc. (Terebine is POISONOUS)

Our old jarrah desk has been used as an island bench for 3 years. It has had hot saucepans put on it daily, it has stuff spilt on it daily, it gets wiped over with wet sponges several times a day. It gets used and abused.
It was treated with nothing but Pure Orange Oil (drowned in it) and it does not have a single stain on it. If it gets a seriuos scratch, a bit of Orange Oil fixes it. It is food safe.
The wood will never warp as it never dries out. The amount of expansin and contraction is limited to that caused by temperature change, as humidity cannot affect it die to its saturated state. It requires re-oiling about every 2 years after the initial several drownings.
I am happy to email you pics of the desk top and of the construction.
I intend to do my bench tops this way if no-one can show me someting better.

Looking forward to comments on this methodology.
Regards,
Phill.

[Trav]

Thanks Phill

I'm still kicking around how to do these benchtops. I had considered cutting off the t&g and biscuiting together as you suggested. However, I think I might just keep the T&G for another project and buy a glue lam benchtop from somewhere. Or I might just go with laminate or even cough up for granite. SWMBO is keen for me to build a deck next, so I could have a bit of time to consider and come up with alternatives.

I'd be keen to see the outcomes of your doors and benchtops once comeplted.

Trav

[pawnhead]

I’ll be building a new kitchen for myself shortly and I’m tossing up ideas. I don't believe that laminated bench top blanks are all that expensive though. Or I could pour one myself.
Jill has built herself a gorgeous kitchen and a beautiful house described in that thread.

Thanks for the advice in your post Phil. Where do you get this orange oil from?

[ptrott]

John, the only place I have been able to get it at reasonable cost is www.gillystephenson.com
They do mail order. It is worth getting a litre at least as it is great for cutting boards,
rew wood furniture, oiling wood before using oil based varnish, mixing with oil based varnish or paint, etc. etc. Its a bit like the bondcrete slogan..."its uses are limited only by your imagination"
I mixed it with the Wattyl Tung Oil floor finish that I used on my floors, skirts, trims etc.
It gives the wood a good oiling while you paint and you just wipe off the excess when the varnish dries.

[Larry149]

Hi Phil & Trav (and others)! My first Post on this forum - hope the thread is still alive...
Noted that you are discussing the stuff of which kitchens are made.
I decided after getting a couple of quotes for a reno (new doors / drawers etc) that were around the $8,000 to $10,000 mark I'd do it myself. After I got up off the floor and had a stiff double whisky I worked out that the raw material cost would be around $1,500 all up!! So I'll buy a 1/2" router & table etc and still do it for a quarter the cost (and love doing it!)
I want to make the doors T&G V-Groove (I have some very well seasoned 10mm T&G pine boards) which I'll rabbet into pine frames (unless there is a better alternative timber to use).
Also I'm hoping that the doors will take the very high gloss polyurethane that The Wife requires, and that the pro's are using on their painted doors ( - which are MDF) without cracking over time. I'm sure MDF is extremely stable but after all, it's MDF . . .
I hope that the doors I make will not expand and crack the finish. Any comments?
Wanted to ask also about recycled Ironbark as a benchtop. I'm using very old red Ironbark (100+ years, beee-yewtiful timber and close grained like you wouldn't believe). The timber merchant suggests that polyurethane is a safer benchtop sealant than oiling. But I love oil if it works OK. I want to ensure no water gets into the timber - do you think the orange oil (or a Tung mix etc) will work as well on red Ironbark as it does for Jarrah?
I guess we need certainty here because once the oil goes onto the timber it's too late to change to a varnish -??
Any help appreciated.
_________________________________________

"Whether you think you can, or are sure you can't, chances are you're right" - Henry Ford.

[pawnhead]

I'd say that a joinery door would almost certainly crack up after a while. MDF is the way to go. Just router a pattern into it. I'll be building a new kitchen for myself shortly and I'm still tossing up on the style. Here's a gloss polly job.



And here's gloss High Pressure Laminate @ about $70/m^2. The white and the purple are the High Pressure, the Zebrano Splashback is just standard laminate. It looks good and it's very durable.