Is this right? Paying 50% Deposit before installation.

[makka619]

Getting a cupboard (carcass/door) made and installed for $1200.

The guy just asked for a 50% deposit before they go ahead with the job. He said he forgot to tell me, and that it is a requirement for all jobs under $5000.

It's not a huge deal but I want to check if this sounds right. Mainly because I have had bad experience with tradies recently who have stuffed us around; one of whom we paid half of the quote before the completed the job..

[JDub]

IME its not unusual to ask for 50% if you are getting something custom made for you.....

[eemgee]

Makka619,
It may not be unusual but I would be wary of anyone that wants a 50% deposit,
In all my time of subcontracting and owner/building I have never paid more than a 10% deposit, and mostly no deposit and paid for goods when they arrived on site.
You have to protect yourself and the norm would be pay for what goods have arrived on site and to withhold enough money until the job is finished that if the contractor leaves & doesn't come back you can pay someone else to finish the job.
There are a multitude of reasons for a contractor not coming back to finish a job and most owner/builders would be able to tell a few of them.

[arms]

You have to protect yourself

and dont you think that the contractor should be entitled to protect him/her self ,in all cases i get a deposit and i dont care who they are because over the years i have found that if the customer cant pay a deposit as required then how will they pay for the balance ,as the law stands anything that gets taken onto a site belongs to the owner of that site ,so following that reason people should be thankful that they are not asked to pay in full BEFORE any thing is delivered ,

[joe greiner]

[QUOTE=arms;462216]as the law stands anything that gets taken onto a site belongs to the owner of that site QUOTE]

Sounds quite drastic. Does Oz law have provisions for mechanics lien? Many years ago, I worked in manufacture of custom-made architectural precast concrete. We always had to execute a release of lien to receive final payment.

Joe

[bricks]

In S.A I am allowed to ask for Total materials cost plus 10% for jobs over 12,000. I dont unless the customer looks dodgy, wants to pay at a later date or asks for custom fabrications.

When ever I do this i produce a contract for the job with start, end dates and a full breakdown of costs. This should hold up in court IMO should i not do the work, or customer not pay me.

You could find a different tradie, or ask for a written contract that includes start and end dates.

If you pay a deposit you should also sign a contract. No contract, no deposit id say.
It would'nt be fair for the tradie to protect himself and not offer you protection also.

[Bleedin Thumb]

as the law stands anything that gets taken onto a site belongs to the owner of that site ,so following that reason people should be thankful that they are not asked to pay in full BEFORE any thing is delivered ,

Thats pretzel logic I recon.


The law does not state that materials become the owners belongings when they get taken to site.
The laws states that a contractor does not have the right to remove a fixed item from site.

Big difference.


I never ask for a deposit. If I need money straight up I negotiate a progress payment when I start on site.

Since the Security of Payments Act 1999 came into effect the only reason's a subie needs a deposit is because they haven't got the finances to carry the job or they don't trust you.

Either way - not a good start to a working relationship IMHO.

BTW I never start a job without a very good (fair) contract signed such as AS 2124.

[Sturdee]

The law does not state that materials become the owners belongings when they get taken to site.

EXCEPT when the owner is a company and that company goes into either receivership or liquidation. All property on site (which includes materials delivered) then belongs to the Receiver/Liquidator and you are left holding the bag as another unsecured creditor.

Been there, and in fact tools left by subbies locked up overnight on site were also confiscated by the Receiver and sold at auction to satisfy his appointing creditor whilst the subbies were unsecured creditors and got 5 cents in the dollar 4 years after the event.

Hence a decent deposit is not unreasonable.


Peter.

[seriph1]

my opinion is that a solid deposit is a fair thing to ask for and pay. 50% was what I was told, one of our local Kitchen makers charges. He explained that he had subbies to cover, materials to purchase and labour to undertake. The 50% went a good way to covering these expenses and ensured commitment from the customer. If they refused, then he walked, plain and simple.

Personally, I will have difficulty asking for that kind of money up-front as a designer, but I get 30% before I start and I basically have no materials costs or subbies - but I do have a lot of time to invest, which I cannot get back, and there are people out there that once they see their designs, think they are not worth the cost (though honestly, I have never had that happen to me) - I think it boils down to who it is, what the job is and what's fair. If the price was fair and the final payment is not given over a second before the customer is happy, then I doubt it matters. We all have a right to protect ourselves.

have fun

[makka619]

Something doesn't feel right about it.

He seemed like a decent guy. But he has come around twice before calling up to add this information that he 'forgot'. First time for a quote, second time to measure. I wasn't questioning him on the phone... just saying "oh okay", but he kept telling me that it wasn't his choice, it is his managements. Should I ask him for a written document that states this rule.

Honestly, I wonder if it is because he doesn't trust me...

Or is it means I shouldn't trust him.

[Bleedin Thumb]

EXCEPT when the owner is a company and that company goes into either receivership or liquidation. All property on site (which includes materials delivered) then belongs to the Receiver/Liquidator and you are left holding the bag as another unsecured creditor.
.


Peter.

Point taken however most commercial contracts wouldn't involve a deposit especially 50%.

[Lignum]

As a furniture maker i ask for 40% up front and ballance on delivery. No one complaines. Its standard practice

[bricks]

In S.A.
Just looked in my book thingy bout it, tradies can ask for pretty much anything they like same as their quote can be what they like,
The $12,000 is where progress payments are made, i can ask for enough to cover the next stage of work to be done ( materials), plus ten percent. This includes the deposits aswell.
If i choose not to use progress payments, once again i can ask for anything I like. ( with plumbing) I belive when building a house/extension this might change.

I still say if handing over cash, get a contract,

[makka619]

Well we can pay the money, but it just makes me wonder why he is asking for it now.

I told him that we can pay him (full) when he comes around, but he said it is required before.

hmmmm

[Lignum]

Well we can pay the money, but it just makes me wonder why he is asking for it now.

I told him that we can pay him (full) when he comes around, but he said it is required before.

hmmmm

Dont be a tight ass Macca I hope you realise how much it costs to run a business, especialy a trade based one that requires materials to be purchased and the time to actualy manufacture it, then deliver and install.

Asking for a deposit is standard practice and if i had someone refused to pay a deposit with me, well bad luck, i wouldnt start on the job required. You should have a gut feel if he is legit, and you said you can pay, so why stress. Pay the poor tradie his deposit and wait for a job well done