Plumbing Work - What is Permitted

[juan]

I am a sparky who is undertaking a bathroom renovation.

Always like to do things by the book and wonder what plumbing work can be performed legally by a DIYer like me.

Can I do the hot and cold water to the HWS outlet including installing mixers etc?
Can I install the underfloor plumbing back to the sewer when I replace the concrete floor?

I am on a budget (arent we all) but do not want to break any regulations.

Cheers
Juan

[Barry_White]

If you are connected to the water/council mains you can't even install a washer in a tap legally. It's a bit like electricity and gas it's a closed shop protection for the boys.

[munruben]

Guy I knew installed all his own pipes for the plumbing for his mobile home but got a plumber to connect it up. apparently this is allowed as long as it conforms to rule. This was in Sydney a few years ago.

[juan]

Thanks for the feedback

[wonderplumb]

Mate bite the bullet and call a plumber, Im not saying this in a biased fashion but it will save you a lot of time and hassle, horses for courses I say, I wouldnt even pull cables in my own house! After all, thats what sparkies are for! It will also give you peace of mind. If you want to do it on the side, find a 3rd year that works for cash, make sure you suss him out for confidence, but after all this is how I saved for my first home whilst going through my trade. Being a sparky Im sure you'd find one on site.

[ricgstevens]

Very interesting question - you beat me to it.

At the risk of starting World War 3 with the plumbing folk on this forum, I have often wondered how I could get past having to employ a plumber.

Why? I hear you ask. I'll be straight up - the workmanship in some building trades these days, quite frankly, is a disgrace. Too much work, not enough supply of trades resulting in shoddy, slap-dash worksmanship for nothing less than top dollar. On top of which you just about have to beg to get them to quote on a job in the first place. Read into this what ya like. But those are the facts. Kids coming out of apprenticeship driving V8 utes and cocky as all get up.

I have seen the quality of work out there and it isn't impressive. What ever happened to pride in one's workmanship, attention to detail and above all reasonable prices. I am about to undertake a complete gut and re-fit of all the wet areas in my 1960's house and I am dreading having to go through the process of employing the services of a plumber. First of all, tradesmen tend to dislike renovations (too messy, too much hassle) and then price accordingly. Second, the very thought of seeing my Vic Ash framing work getting butchered by their boring implements and gas torches char grilling my wood sends a chill down my spine.

By the way, I don't mind paying for a top job (and have done so in the past) but I have ALWAYS been disappointed because of short cuts and a she'll be right, no one can see it attitude towards completing a job.

So much so I just want to do the job myself, to a standard that (I say this quite humbly) that would embarrass most trades. I won't for the simple reason it is illegal and dangerous. For example I happened to do some pipe work (water) myself a few years ago (about half a dozen solded joints) and some years later when a plumber came to do some other work for me, he asked me who had done the job. I said it was a plumber. He laughed at me at said, "bulls*it!" "It was you who did it, wasn't it?" I said whaddaya mean? He replied "I don't think there are any plumbers left in Australia who would take the trouble to clean the joints and true everything up the way this job was done" Technically he said the job was perfect and that in itself was the dead give away. He cautioned me not to try it again. Not because my workmanship was crap but more the point if something were to go wrong (eg leak causing flooding) my insurance company would run away from me like a scalded cat and even worse still if someone got hurt, I could see myself facing time in the lock up. Not sure if this is true, but I believed him at the time.

So it is pretty much is a case of finding a tradesmen who will do a great job, is dependable and won't charge the earth for it. Division One Tatts Lotto would be easier. In some ways, I think I can do it but for the reasons outlined above, I am scared to. Can you guys see the irony in all this?

OK, OK, I admit I'm stereotyping based on a small sample base. By the way it happened to my mum in law a couple of years back when she asked her nephew (then in his early twenties) who was starting up his own electrical contracting business. She thought she would help out by getting him to quote for all the electrical work on her new house. She wanted to give him the job but to keep him honest we decided to get two more quotes. Guess what? - his was the most expensive quote and to be frank I was glad he didn't get the job. We later heard his work was quite ordinary. So much for that. He didn't really care that he missed out on the job, and said so himself. Sheer bloody arrogance. Last time he saw any business from our side of the family, I tell ya! Still didn't stop him though - he now has a small business with about 10 guys working for him and making a fistful of cash.

Instead of going to uni, I should have done either an electrical or plumbing apprenticeship.

Sorry for the rant!!

Ric

[wonderplumb]

Well said Ric, thats why I said, "Suss him out" cause you can tell the ones that want to work from the ones that want to rip you off. And a young bloke who is worth his salt, and wants to get ahead in life will take on any job, cashy or not and not only that is out there making a name for himself. Im still doing work for people that I done cashys for when I was a 2nd yr, 12 yrs ago! And ther is still blokes out there who do take pride in there work, I am one of them, behind a wall or in the ground dont matter, it comes down to presentation when inspection time comes around.

[Honorary Bloke]

We have been down this road many times before and I never come away with that warm fuzzy feeling that anyone's being helped, because it appears they are not permitted to be helped.

[First off, I am referring specifically to plumbing, not electrical work, which is another kettle of fish. Don't go there.]

Okay, we discuss the regulations and I suppose that is what was asked about here, but for every complex plumbing connection that requires professional installation, there are 10 or a hundred that the average handy person can do themselves and do well. If a bloke wants to change out a toilet, let him change it out. If it leaks afterward, let him figure out why and fix it. Connecting mixers is not rocket science.

Somebody must be doing something themselves, or how are Bunnies staying in business?

Ricgstevens says: "So much so I just want to do the job myself, . . . I won't for the simple reason it is illegal and dangerous." What's dangerous about installing a new dunny? (Unless the lid falls on your head. )

I keep all my old licence plates because they are great for protecting the framing when soldering a copper pipe. Just nail 'em up all around the work and go to it. It's not hi-tech but it's safe and fairly simple. Learned it from a plumber.

I just don't get it, and I have to assume that Barry White is right when he says it is just a way to keep a closed shop.

Now I value good plumbers and there are a lot of jobs I won't undertake. And I guess I've been fortunate in that I've used several very good plumbers over the years who not only did great work but usually said to me at the end "Now if this happens again, just do this and you won't have to call me." [True, I swear.]

But if you own a measuring tape and a tube cutter, you can make pipe to length. If you own a hacksaw and buy some glue, you can work PVC pipe all day long.

I can't explain why this nags at me so. I guess it's because I know the blokes on this Forum are smarter than the average Drop Bear and could easily do this stuff if allowed.

There, I feel better now.

[TJAY]

Luckily found a great plumber, lives just around the corner. Doesn't charge the earth, comes when he says he will and doesn't mind if I do all the labouring first so he just does the connections.

I hadn't picked up a tool until a few months ago when I bought this renovator's delight, but like most things I've discovered, if a pimply faced 15 year old 1st year can do it, I can probably do it too, and I'll put a hell of a lot more care into it.

I don't mind leaving the important/dangerous stuff to an expert, but everything else I'll have a crack at, if I stuff it up then at least I can call them in.

[wonderplumb]

Anyone can change a toilet or solder copper pipes together or cut DWV and glue it together but its the rules and regulations behind it, how far you can run a certain sized pipe, available head pressure, existing pipework if your doing a reno, etc. etc. there's a reason why it takes 6 years to become a plumber and its not to keep a closed shop. I dont mind giving advice as far as what can and cant be done but im not going to tell someone flat out how to do something. If I want to move a power point ill call a sparky(and ive done my restricted course) if I want to hang a door or buld stairs ill call a chippy, the only thing I can do with wood is burn it.
Too many times ive had to "Repair what your husband has fixed" and its ended up costing them double only cause some moron at bunnings has said yeah this all you need and how you do it, and I enjoy making them feel silly! Sick isnt it.
Aaah, feel better now.
Thanks Fellas

[peter_sm]

Yet anyone can do brake repairs on a car??????

I have not done any work on my house myself at all whatsoever. It is all how we bought the house.

Looks good now

[Sturdee]

[First off, I am referring specifically to plumbing, not electrical work, which is another kettle of fish. Don't go there.]

Actually here all plumbing works that connect in some way to the main water supply, sewerage systems and roof plumbing (including guttering and down pipes) need to be done by a licensed plumber. Admittedly a water leak is not as dangerous as an electrical wiring fault but improper gas plumbing can and will kill people. Hence my objections to posting "how to do" replies apply to this topic as well.

I keep all my old licence plates because they are great for protecting the framing when soldering a copper pipe. Just nail 'em up all around the work and go to it. It's not hi-tech but it's safe and fairly simple. Learned it from a plumber.

Here you must return old registration plates after car registration expires, else the cops come and collect it from you and hand you a large fine as well.


Peter.

[boban]

there's a reason why it takes 6 years to become a plumber and its not to keep a closed shop.

But it was OK for you to go out as a 2nd year for your cashy.

6 years, to learn plumbing theory. Hmmmmm.

[Learner]

I did plumbing of very very high standard for my garden irrigation drip system

Used a Natafin disc filter 120 MICRON followed by senninger pressure regulator limit valve (THIS IS THE MAIN REGULATOR 275KPA FROM WHICH THE DIFFERENT BRANCHES OF THE IRRAGATION SYSTEM ARE FED), http://www.senninger.com/pages/new_prlv.html
followed by a timer followed by another pressure reducer to bring the pressure down to 100 KPa.

Besides all my drip emitters were Toro pressure compensated types 8 ltr and 4 ltr per hour hour.

Even put in a automatic flush valve at the end of the lines.

Even bought a PRESSURE GUAGE LIQUID FILLED.

NOW ONLY THING REMAINING IS THE BACKFLOW PREVENTION DEVICE NOT INSTALLED AND APPROVED BY LICENCED PLUMBER.
FOR THIS CRIME I EXPECT TO BE JAILED 100 YEARS.

Every day I take Temazepam

I have never ever back fed toilet water or germs or worms back into the drinking water supply system.

Now can plumber explain to me if dual check, double check, non-return , anti-siphon valves are really needed please!!!.

I am writing this in the middle of the night. Need two more Tamazepam tablets to comply with my bodies sleeping regulations!

[wonderplumb]

But it was OK for you to go out as a 2nd year for your cashy.

6 years, to learn plumbing theory. Hmmmmm.

Yes, 6yrs. I recommend it! In saying that I would only take on jobs that my limited knowledge of the time would allow, basic stuff but still knew rules and regulations on that basic stuff. Anything too involved required the help of my older cousin, god bless him, who was a licensee that I was working directly under.