What type of lacquer is this?

[woden]

As with woodwork I know next to nothing about finishing and so assumed that all lacquers were nitrocellulose and so thinned with NC thinners. I've just been reading through this board and realised this is far from the case.
So this would explain why the lacquer I've just been using doesn't thin with NC thinners. It's Colron refined lacquer (UK brand) with a satin finish and looks like creamy white glue in the tin. However, it does dry into a clear finish. Thing is I tried to make a sealer coat - don't know why you have to do this but read that it's necessary - and mixed 1:1 with NC thinners. To my amazement (bearing in mind my general ignorance of finishing) the damn stuff didn't mix, no matter how much I stirred.

On the tin it doesn't say what to use for thinning but it does say brushes can be washed clean in soapy water. So does this mean that this is a water based or acrylic lacquer - I haven't a clue what acrylic means but think I remember hearing it has something to do with water based.

Am I anywhere near a clear understanding of this lacquer stuff or still on planet know nothing.:confused:

[journeyman Mick]

If the brushes wash out in water then you most definitely won't be thinning it with lacquer thinners. I'm guessing it's an acrylic and uses water to wash up and to thin.

Mick

[durwood]

Unfortunately often labels don't give you a true indication of what the material is.

A lacquer is a general term for a type of paint material. If you see lacquer on the label it should mean that the material is
* dry fasting/ probably needs to be sprayed .
*needs to be thinned 50% or more with solvent
*needs a lot of coats (4 to 5 normally against 1 or 2 for enamels)
*needs to be polished to gain maximum gloss (because it drys fast)
* can be repaired if it is damaged by reapplying more material to a section of the finish.

Nitrocellulose lacquer is what most people refer to as DUCO ( which is a brand name - made by Dupont) It has its own thinner, a mixture of several solvents including acetone. Its been around since the 1920's. As a clear it is hopeless in the sunlight as it quickly yellows and cracks. same as cellulose tape (same material )

Acrylic Lacquer is a different material its basically perspex. This clear stands up a lot better to sunlight. doesn'r yellow or crack easily. Its the clear used on Holdens since Metallic colours came out in the 1960's.

It has its own solvent its a lot stronger than N/C thinner but some of the same materials are common to both so if you use each ones thinner in the other not much happens that you can see.

Both these lacquers do not mix with water or metho or turps.

If the refined lacquer washes in water it is a long way from being a normal lacquer. Do a test and see if water mixes with it as Journeyman Mick has suggested I'm suprised no mention of a solvent is on the label. This probably means its an industrial material and simple instructions are normally not put onto these tins. It is expected that the tradesman knows the information and if not he would refer to a data sheet the paint company would supply directly the buyer.

Being Acrylic only means the base resin comes from the acrylic resin family. To a painter it denotes it is able to withstand ultra violet light (sunlight) well compared to other options available to him as a material whether thats a clear or a colour or a putty etc.

[woden]

Sorry for not getting back sooner. But thanks all the same for the detailed repplys.

I did what I should have done at the beginning and dialled the telephone number on the back of the tin. I got one of Ronseal's - they seem to be Colrons parent company - technical help people and she told me that it could be thinned up to 10% with water. Anymore than that would impair the quality apparently. Anyway I tried water and it worked. However, now I'm wondering if this is really lacquer at all as from what you've posted durwood it doesn't seem to be either acrylic or NC.:confused:

I have another jar of lacquer which does seem to be NC as the label says to clean brushes with cellulose thinners. However, it's not for use on wood but rather metals instead.

It says on the tin of the Colron stuff to just apply 2 or 3 coats of the lacquer - no mention of a thinned first coat. This also seems to few according to your point about the need for lots of coats if it's a lacquer, Durwood. I've tried three cuts on a file handle I stripped of its previous finish and its now got a lovely satin sheen. I put on the second coat without rubbing down first as I was afraid the first was so thin I'd easily go through it. (I now read that breaking through a lacquer coat when rubbing down doesn't matter as much as unlike polyurethane varnish the various coats meld into each other??!!) I then applied the final coat after rubbing down the second with Liberon 0000 grade steel wool. Do you know if that grade of steel wool is about right or too fine for rubbing down?

[durwood]

You are right its not a true lacquer. As you only need 10% solvent to use its a slow drying material which you can brush on. As its only 10% thinned most of the finish will dry on the surface 90%, so 2-3 coats will be enough.

Lacquer on the other hand need equal parts or more so when it is drying 50% plus evaporates off leaving a thin coat Hence the 4 to 5 coats. Most of the solvent is lost getting the paint from the gun to the surface as the air dries it out. Without that solvent it dried before it gets there and either goes on as sand or really thick lumpy peely paint or if you hold the gun too far away just blows away in the wind.

Lacquers are not easy to brush onto a large surface as it dries before you get a chance to apply it all.

Yoiu could use steel wool just make sure the paint is dry properly or you may end up with small pieces of steel in the finish as it breaks up, fine abrasive paper or a scouring pad works better.

The material if it says for metal doesn't mean you couldn't use it on it any finish suitable for metal (car) can be applied to wood as long as it doesn't need lots of heat to bake it.

[woden]

The Colron stuff does dry quite quickly though - touch dry after about two hours and it does leave a very thin coat. Well, thinner than any of the varnishes I've ever used. The other stuff which I think is nitrocellulose lacquer dries even faster still - virtually as it comes off the brush. Well mayber there's a few minutes involved.

But you're saying that I could use this metal lacquer on wood? (It doesn't seem to need any heat to dry.) Should I thin this NC stuff with about 50% thinners if I do use it?

The thing I like about steel wool is that I find it easy to use on spherical and irregular shaped objects. It adjusts itself to the surface being rubbed down as opposed to abrasive paper as it's more fiddly to do this. A sanding pad sounds like an interesting idea though.