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28th March 2014, 12:27 PM #1New Member
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Getting some Turpentine milled into planks for a table
Hi folks,
very long story short, i have a tall and near dead straight turpentine in my yard that is getting pulled down. According the aborist, its its last legs. It's bigish 15m high, 40+cm at the base tapering up nicely. It's getting felled on monday, and i've got a guy with a portable mill coming out on tuesday to get it planked up. After reading a few threads on how hard this is, i'm glad i was going to head of to bunnings to buy my own a thicknesser! Yes, its a sentimental tree, which is why i was going to keep it, regardless of the how pretty the grain is.
The plan was to build a table top from it, i was thinking about getting the boards cut as wide as i could while minimising wastage. Around 170mm (need to see blanks after they come down) x 50mm.
I have a few questions that i wanted to check with you guys, for some real advice on how best to work with it.
1) The milling guy thinks between 10 to 16 weeks drying time for the boards once they are cut. Given thats a 6 week variation, is there a way to tell when they are ready?
2) Any suggestions on what is the best material to use to finish it? What i want to do is preserve the natural look and colour of the timber, so i was thinking about using a danish oil, but i really dont want to change the colour of the timber or have it go yellow (or any stain for that matter). I was reading these notes http://www.wwch.org/technique/finishes/oilfin.htm, clearly written by a guy who doesn't care for formatting or these were written in the 90's when html was in its infancy (remember hotdog by sausage software anyone?). They are detailed enough for me to at least consider he's onto something. But i cant seem to find the WATCO brand of oil in Oz to give it a whirl on some scrap / offcuts. He does point out that he likes the product and its predictable, so i'd be nervous substituting with another brand.
3) i'm not looking for a high-gloss piano finish, but would like something the finish to show the grain and not matt. It needs to be fairly hardwaring as i have kids under 5 and they will give it a hammering. Any suggestions on products?
4) I'm not scared of hard work, so was planning to hand-polish it, but given the horror stories of how hard turpentine is i've read this morning on the forum, should i reconsider that?
Thoughts?
thanks folks!
-Boris
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28th March 2014, 01:24 PM #2GOLD MEMBER
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Boris,
Welcome to the forum.
Ten to sixteen weeks is not going to dry 50mm thick Turpentine. Not air drying anyway. The rule of thumb is a year for each 25mm of thickness. You are cutting at the right time, as autumn winter and early spring will give slow drying to minimize checking. Strip it out properly and you should have some good usable material. The other option would be to kiln dry it to speed up the process. I think the closest kiln to you would be Colo Heights.
Oil would be the finish of choice. Tung oil would be good and you can keep adding oil over the years to retain that fresh oiled look. Once the initial coats have penetrated, its just a wipe over with an oily rag and a buff up.
Good luck.
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28th March 2014, 03:39 PM #3New Member
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Thanks mate, appreciate the advice! , two years before i can use it? wow... i'll give the guys at colo a call, i called them first about milling the logs and they laughed when i said i was going to drop them off.
With the tung oil (which i've not used), does it leave much residue in day to day use? i was thinking with the resin type finishes they will at least put up with dents and knocks, and it won't have an "oily" feel. Any particular type or brand of tung oil you recommend?
-Boris
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28th March 2014, 05:49 PM #4GOLD MEMBER
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Once the oil has had time to dry there is no residue. You can also go over it with a polish like Gemini floor polish. This gives a good protective coating and can be buffed up to what ever level of shine you require. Easy to apply and quick drying. You wont be getting bumps and dint in Turpentine in a hurry. Scratch marks are easy treated with the oil. Any Tung oil is ok. Whatever you can get your hands on.
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28th March 2014, 06:04 PM #5Senior Member
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One option might be to use proof seal and sand to 400grit then put 2 coats of it on then sand it with clean 400 and then apply a lacquer i know it looks nice on silky but not too sure about turpentine though as i have only put lacquer on it. hope this may help a bit. Cheers WC
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29th March 2014, 08:39 AM #6
Be careful with 'wide' boards, my experience with turp is it doesn't dry nice and easy.
With the 10-16 weeks air drying, did the guy know you where wanting to make a piece of 'fine furniture'? if so, he is either telling you what you want to hear to get the job - or knows bugger all, either way might be best to stay away from himI love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
Allan.
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29th March 2014, 05:45 PM #7
The Turpentine Wood.
Hi All,
Well I have very little experience with Turpentine Wood, & certainly do not want anymore.
Did have some many Years ago, went to run it through the Bandsaw 3/8 x 6TPI.
I stuffed my NEW blade up within 2 mins. May as well used the back of the blade, for all the good it was after.
Cut it with the axe, then Turned it or tried to, blunted the Tools as well.Regards,
issatree.
Have Lathe, Wood Travel.
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29th March 2014, 11:27 PM #8
Hi Boris
If the timber is only for a table top, you may want to go for planks around 30-35mm thick which should finish around 22-25mm thick.
If you want to get table legs as well, maybe get at least one plank at around 70mm thick -- which should finish around 55-60mm thick.
Yes, you're looking at around 2 years to air dry.
It's faster in a kiln -- there's plans around to build a simple mains/solar powered one
(for a once off project like yours, you essentially need a tent and two fans -- one to circulate the air inside the tent, the other to move air through the tent.)
you will also need a moisture meter to monitor the drying.
Don't underestimate the level of effort involved in converting a dried slab into furniture grade timber -- budget on turning a third or even half of your wood into chips.
I'd hold off buying a thicknesser till the wood is dry enough to use.
PLUS you will also need a way of getting the planks flat on one face and square to one edge before putting them through the thicknesser.
Rather than buy the tools for a one off project, perhaps you can find a forumite who will work beside you as you build your table.regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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31st March 2014, 12:17 PM #9New Member
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hi Ian,
Thanks for the response, really appreciated. I might just see if i can get the timber into a professional kiln. I'll do a ring around today as i'd rather minimise the amount that gets turn into firewood. I've no issues getting it done properly, just looking for the steps.
If i get the timber kiln dried, is it usable straight away?
In case anyone is curious, here are the logs that came down today.
Thanks folks,
-Boris.
2014-03-31 08.08.28.jpg2014-03-31 08.29.06.jpg2014-03-31 08.29.15.jpg
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31st March 2014, 02:20 PM #10GOLD MEMBER
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Technically speaking yes, its ready out of the kiln. Practically speaking, it should be allowed a little reconditioning time prior to use. The way I like to dry Turps is six months air, kiln, 3 months in the shed. Are you sure that's turps?
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31st March 2014, 10:08 PM #11Senior Member
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Be careful
Boris,
Please take note of what others have contributed about the behaviour of 'turps' - they're right. Turps is a difficult timber to process (warping,high silica content), particularly at that size. In addition to what has already been offered, turps is a very high shrinkage species. Expect the backsawn boards you have to shrink by around 13% during drying to 11-14% moisture content. Also, turpentine has a unit shrinkage of 0.35. For every 1% change in moisture content the boards will shrink (or expand) by 0.35 mm per 100mm of width. This may not sound like much but over a year an exposed tables' moisture content can easily vary by 2% which translates to 7mm of width change (over 1m). 7mm will place a lot of strain on your jointing not to mention potential for warping. Furniture makers will joint to allow for this movement.
An old technique is to fix the table top to the inside faces of the rails with the use of bent pieces of flat bar steel. The steel is formed to 'bow' shapes and screwed at 45 degrees to the underside of the corners of the table in their middles so the ends bow down. The ends will have been cut off at 45 degrees and slot into narrow slots cut into the inside faces of the rails at each corner thus holding the table down. If the table top expands or shrinks the flat bars slide in the grooves (leave space for this).
Tread carefully and talk to some cabinet makers about the numbers I have given you.
Good luck, Timboz
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1st April 2014, 09:26 AM #12New Member
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thank you all for your advice!
Guys, i really appreciate all the advice, its always amazes me how much knowledge there is out there and ever thankful people are willing to share it
RustyNail - I'm not in a hurry to use the timber and thankfully have the space to store it. I'll follow the method you suggested. Re teh treee breed, I'm pretty sure its one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncarpia_glomulifera
Timboz - i will do. I'll try and pop into a cabinet maker in the local area or up in the blue mountains when i head up there next. That flat steel bow is interesting, do you by chance have any pic's? i had a quick look on google images, but couldnt find anything. My plan was after it had been kiln'ed and rested, was to run it through a thicknesser and expoxy glue the edges and biscuit join. I guess i'm reading that's not going to fly due to the board movement? Does oiling and waxing not settle that down a bit?
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1st April 2014, 05:15 PM #13Senior Member
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`Table top
Timboz - i will do. I'll try and pop into a cabinet maker in the local area or up in the blue mountains when i head up there next. That flat steel bow is interesting, do you by chance have any pic's? i had a quick look on google images, but couldnt find anything. My plan was after it had been kiln'ed and rested, was to run it through a thicknesser and expoxy glue the edges and biscuit join. I guess i'm reading that's not going to fly due to the board movement? Does oiling and waxing not settle that down a bit?[/QUOTE]
Boris, biscuit jointing with epoxy is fine for creating the 'slab' that is the tabletop. Oiling/varnishing will help with but not stop movement. The technique I mentioned is for holding the 'slab' down onto the rails and legs assembly. If you search "Rockler Woodworking & Hardware" and enter "tabletop fasteners" into their search window you'll get a similar thing to what I was suggesting. Click on the little thumbprint image on that page and you will see how they work.
Cheers, Timboz
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2nd April 2014, 08:33 PM #14New Member
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Hi Folks,
The tree got cut into a few 200mm slabs and the rest got turned into 160mm boards. Some nice looking ones, but a few did start to check and split about 4 hours after it was cut! good grief that was fast . But its all racked up now and weighed down. So i'll see it in a year or so!
here are the pics if anyone is interested
can't wait!!
-Boris
2014-04-01 11.33.10.jpg2014-04-01 11.33.36.jpg2014-04-01 11.34.31.jpg2014-04-01 11.58.29.jpg2014-04-01 19.42.59.jpg2014-04-01 19.43.06.jpg
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6th April 2014, 08:42 PM #15Member
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hi boris......beautifully coloured pieces....you will have fun with those in a year or so......just a small point....I would be inclined to have some form of protective barrier to prevent your stack from toppling over....not sure how steady that stack is ..its very tall and thin at its base....It wouldn't take much to get a knock and fall over and hurt someone....otherwise ......(rubbing my hands with glee)...I'm looking forward to hearing what become of these......
perhaps just a quick tie back to the wall?....I know your brick veneer is likely not structural.....but just something to prevent it leaning over....Last edited by szczepan4069; 6th April 2014 at 08:43 PM. Reason: typo....
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