American TS safety?

[RossM]

Hi,

Can anyone comment on the differences between safety standards in the USA & Oz in table saw use? I have been looking at a few video pod casts recently and it seems that riving knives are almost non existant in the US, and that (if the videos are anything to go by) even saw guards seem to be uncommon.

I have also seen some examples of cross cutting on the saw using the rip fence (work piece of about 50 x 75 mm being cut to about 450 mm) and no guards or splitters of any sort & the operator leaning over the saw. I had believed that this was a dangerous practice as even a slight twist from normal to the blade would jam the work piece & could cause an accident.

There also does not seem to be the same mention for the use of dado blade sets in Oz magazines as there are in the US ones.

Any comments?

[watson]

Sshhhhh!!! We haven't told them yet!

A lot of the DVD stuff is done without guards & stuff for clarity...the riving knife stuff I don't know....would always us one no matter what. However, the sepos seem to fixated on dado blade sets. Due to ingenuity (OZ) there are probably other ways around it, but all our good suppliers list them in their cattle-dogs.

[Toolin Around]

No Ross is right. Riving knives and the likes are very rare - in fact I've never seen one in use in the 20 plus years I was a cabinet maker in Canada and the states are the same. Blade guards are also very rare. The last time I saw one of those was back in school in 1980. Nothing wrong with a dado blade - used them for decades. Can't vouch for the idiot using them though.

[AlexS]

I have also seen some examples of cross cutting on the saw using the rip fence (work piece of about 50 x 75 mm being cut to about 450 mm) and no guards or splitters of any sort & the operator leaning over the saw. I had believed that this was a dangerous practice as even a slight twist from normal to the blade would jam the work piece & could cause an accident.

Sure frightens me! You are absolutely correct about a slight twist turning the workpiece into a missile.

[watson]

Damn! I thought I'd got onto a fact.......
I wonder why the use of guards is rare.........
And me, I'd love a good dado blade set...then I can do some of those idiotic things too!!

[RossM]

Here is an example of what I mean! Does not seem uncommon from the USA.

This one is from the Furnitology blog (episode 4 of the videos). http://furnitology.blogspot.com/index.html

[Honorary Bloke]

Damn! I thought I'd got onto a fact.......
I wonder why the use of guards is rare.........
And me, I'd love a good dado blade set...then I can do some of those idiotic things too!!

Cheers Watson, you DID get onto a fact. All US table saws are sold with a blade guard and most with a splitter or riving knife. It's just that everyone removes them. Most tradies and hobbiests believe the blade guard obscures the line of sight and is more dangerous than operating without. Since the splitter is often an integral part of the blade guard, it disappears as well.

You cannot use a dado set with the guard or splitter, of course.

As for cross--cutting using the rip fence. That's very dangerous and a no-no in my book. An excellent way to launch a missile or lose a finger. There is an easy way to use a stop block on the fence before the blade to obviate this practice, but too few either know about it or use it. Often used when cutting tenons with a dado blade.

This is why the SawStop generates a lot of discussion here. Since we often eschew the safety equipment, we need another way to save a finger.

[Lignum]

All US table saws are sold with a blade guard and most with a splitter or riving knife. It's just that everyone removes them.

Bob its interesting that the US style guard is illegal in a commercial shop here.

[Honorary Bloke]

Bob its interesting that the US style guard is illegal in a commercial shop here.

My point exactly! They are inherently unsafe and recognized as such by users, though not by the government or manufacturers.

[Lignum]

We have to use the Suva style guard.

I carnt remember the last time i had a guard on my saw as i reckon they are unsafe and dangerous. It is close by so when Mr Worksafe pops in i just tell em its off for cleaning

[RossM]

OK - so why are the guards dangerous?

And what about splitter/riving knives?

[Groggy]

Here is an example of what I mean! (Screen shot from the Furnitology blog http://furnitology.blogspot.com/index.html) Th is not to pick on anyone in particular, as it seems quite common from my recent viewing of USA material.

Lemme see here:

• short piece between fence and blade
• Groin in the firing line
• Finger too close (unnecessarily)
• Not using the sliding table
• no guard
• doesn't appear to have a splitter

anyone else see anything?

[Groggy]

OK - so why are the guards dangerous?

And what about splitter/riving knives?

Guards are not dangerous, improperly designed or inappropriate guards are dangerous.

Riving knives are good, I like mine and leave it fitted.

EDIT: to clarify, I classify certain pushsticks or any device used to protect you as a guard, it doesn't necessarily have to be fixed to act as a guard.

[joe greiner]

[QUOTE=Honorary Bloke;499031]There is an easy way to use a stop block on the fence before the blade to obviate this practice, but too few either know about it or use itQUOTE]

That's the way Nawm (Abrams, New Yankee Workshop) does it every time I've seen. Should have sunk in by now.

Joe

[Toolin Around]

Here is an example of what I mean! Does not seem uncommon from the USA.

This one is from the Furnitology blog (episode 4 of the videos). http://furnitology.blogspot.com/index.html

No other way to say it... This guys an idiot. Especially cause he has a fence that can slide so he can use the mitre gauge and or a push stick.