Freedom of Information

[journeyman Mick]

Anybody ever accessed any documents under an FOI application? How long does it take (or is that a bit like asking how long a piece of string is?) Under what grounds can it be refused? I've asked for a report that was prepared by the Queensland Fire and Rescue Service in response to a letter that I sent the Assistant Commisioner for this region. My letter had 108 questions in it that the AC said he would respond to. He commisioned two officers to investigate and prepare this report but it seems that the report didn't paint a very good picture of the QFRS. I've had a couple of very unsatisfactory responses and have basically been told that the matter is closed.

I started a FOI application about 4 weeks ago (my original letter was sent early October). I believe that the report will show some liability for damage caused to property and that therefore they won't want to release it. I'm quite upset about some of this and believe that they have been actively trying to cover up wrong doings. They have deleted/omitted some of my radio traffic from transcripts as the questions I asked on air do not show the action of one of their officers in a favourable light. I understand that normally just about everything is included in the transcripts. I asked the questions that I did as I wanted them on record in case something went amiss and there was a coroner's inquest. Urban appliance responded to grass fire well outside of their area and turned back two rural appliances. I asked whether there were any rural appliances in attendance as it was a rural area, I asked this as I wanted it on record in case they couldn't attend a house fire or motor vehicle accident and some poor bugger died because these government employees were too busy playing heroes. They didn't like my questions so they deleted them.:mad: . That's got to be illegal, surely?

Sorry to bore you all with the dirty laundry but I've just been given a copy of a letter sent to a local MP by the minister for Emergency Services that basically makes out that I'm being unreasonable and that all my questions have been responded to. They must be trying to discredit my questions by personally attacking me.:mad: I think they thought I would have given up by now (8 months on). Unfortunately for them I tend to get really stubborn especially in the face of adversity.

Mick (volunteer stirrer and generally stubborn bugger)

[Exador]

Mick, my only experience with FOI was with the CSA some time ago. The requests took a couple of months to be answered and cost me a couple of hundred. The important thing is to be sure the document exists, refer to a date and subject and preferably a document title and cross your fingers. Noone will go looking if you're fishing and it's very frustrating to get back a response that says "no such document exists" when you know it does!!

Keep it simple and specific and you'll be right. The only possible grounds for refusal (as far as I know) are privacy (someone else's), a ministerial directive or sub-judice documents and they can be got by Court order.

[bitingmidge]

Yes Mick, as Craig says it can take a couple of months.

I have never quite understood the concept. The information may well be there, but on more than one occasion "the file has been out" and we've had to re apply.

It's an interesting system, where one is trying to get evidence of dishonesty by asking the dishonest person if he's got it.

I've used it quite a bit in planning related stuff. In one case that I can recall, delays were caused by councillors having to meet with staff to decide what was and what was not appropriate to forward.

Make sure the application is VERY specific, then it's off to the Ombudsman and the Crime and Misconduct Commission I'm afraid.

Good luck, and don't burn too much gastric juice on the way eh?

P

[The Big O]

Hi Mick, try this site. Type in the name of the Department or "Freedom of information". This law site is fantastic. It gives word for word all the court cases etc. There might be something there that helps. There is at least one case about the said fire dept.
regards, Lionel.
www.austlii.edu.au

[Iain]

Mick, my little realm, I ran FOI for six months when the manager was on long service leave.
There is an FOI Act in Vic which may differ from yours but I will try to cover some points that were relevant here.

1. FOI has 28 days to respond to your request, that does not mean that you will get what you want, it could mean that at the end of 28 days you could get a response such as 'we are still searching and will rerspond within 28 days'.
This can drag on for some time.
2. Delays can be due to a number of reasons, other departments could be holding the said document and FOI are awaiting its release.
The document could be mislaid, this is common and filing in a lot of Gov departments leaves a lot to be desired.
I recall my own personel file was in Mildura, how the hell it got there I have no idea for I never worked in that region.
3. FOI have the right to black out names of other persons other than your own and parts that are not considered relevant to your request.
4.FOI can charge for information unless you can satisfy them of your state of impecunity (their word not mine).
5.If a file is involved in a legal matter it will not be released until that matter is over, this also applies if the file is still engaged in a working matter.
6.After you finally get your file and you are not satisfied with the content you can appeal to the director od that department, if that fails (and can take as long as the original request) your next step is to take the matter to the AAT.
7.If AAT fails you can take the matter to the Supreme Court.
8.If that fails you can take the matter to the Australian High Court.
9.Get a copy of your local FOI Act so you are armed with your rights when engaging in telephone conversations with cretins.
10.Speak to whoever runs FOI, not a clerk, find out who is in charge.
11.Be prepared for a long shi te fight, nothing happens quickly.


One case springs to mind, a bloody minded solicitor trying to make a name for herself demanded to know what was in the spray that was used in prisons to subdue rioting prisoners (this was 16 years ago).
Prisons in Vic did not use capsicum spray, nor did the police at that time but a villain told her he had been sprayed and the matter finally went to court.
Needless to say it didn't proceed too far as we ahd no documentation on an item that did not exist, but she was still volatile.
Some days you just can't win.

[echnidna]

Mick, talk to Boban !

[journeyman Mick]

Thanks for the replies folks, I know the document exists, its authors' names and the date that it was hand delivered to the AC. I know that several copies exist and that it was commisioned specifically in response to my questions. As far as I know there is no current activity in regards to the file (I've basically been told "bugger off, case is closed"). I don't mind if they censor people's names as I know their names anyway.

If I've requested this document that was specifically written in response to my questions, would there be any part that they could censor as being irrelevant to my request? I mean the document only exists because I asked all my questions to start with.

I've approached a solicitor to do the FOI application as I'm too busy and hate dealing with bureacracy. They've agreed to do it on a pro-bono basis as long as they can use any information they turn up for a case they're running for someone who lost a lot of property in a fire I went to the biggest (only?) legal firm in the town that's near where the fires were. Gave them all my background info for the document and they got real interested. In the short term this will end up causing QFRS a lot of embarresment, but they've made it plain to me that they have no interest in addressing any of the serious issues that I raised, so I guess I'll have to embarress them into it.

Ombudsman is the next stop and then the Crime and Misconduct Commission. Maybe, just maybe somebody will decide that they do need to fix things. I'm not losing any sleep over it, but I do get upset when I recieve each installment of their correspondence, I do not like being mistaken for an idiot.

Mick

[Shedhand]

Without going into too much detail, I've also been involved with FOI. In my state the FOI officer has 28 days to respond to a request for information under the FOI Act. The request must be in writing, it must be specific and the information requested must be listed. If any of that list of prerequisites are not met then this is the only way a request can be delayed beyond 28 days. The Officer cannot extend the deadline by claiming the documents/information are still being searched for. The FOI Officer has the discretion to black out any information not relevent to the FOI request. An FOI request can be refused on the grounds of "Commercial Sensitivity", "State Security" or if the officer deems the request to be vexatious. As a rule, and because public servants at certain levels are sympathetic to Labor ideaology, the details of the FOI request and the name of the person requesting information under the act are forwarded to the responsible Minister's office at least 5 working days before the deadline for providing the information. Unofficially the Minister (or a senior staffer) has the final say on what and whether the information is released. Officially, that last step is illegal. However, in reality it is deemed appropriate if the information has the potential to damage the government, a Minister or department.
No-one will ever admit this practice but is SOP in all states and the Federal Government.
Don't give up Mick. You can also refer the outcome of your request (in writing) to the State Ombudsman. He or she is politically independent and will get to the bottom of the matter and it won't cost you a penny.
Cheers
Anonymous