Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35

Thread: Sutton and P&N

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Forster, NSW
    Age
    37
    Posts
    23

    Default Sutton and P&N

    I am looking at new general purpose drill bits. Is there a difference between them as owned by same company?
    Any other suggestions

  2. #2
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    "Brownsville" Nth QLD
    Age
    66
    Posts
    385

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Itms View Post
    I am looking at new general purpose drill bits. Is there a difference between them as owned by same company?
    Any other suggestions
    Short answer - dunno!

    Very few trades persons / machinists and virtually no hobbyists have the means to empirically test tool quality, so we rely upon "real world testing" which is really a gut feel about how well a tool performs. It's definitely getting more difficult to believe the wording about quality, place of manufacture in brochures and advertising and on packaging as advertising "spin doctors" like to create an impression that may not reflect reality.

    There was a discussion about Sutton, place of manufacture etc on this thread. https://www.woodworkforums.com/f20/c...ghlight=sutton

    I just purchased some Sutton masonry drill bits (standard not SDS) - packaging says "Made in France."

    In my experience the Viper bits are very good, for what I do, the P&N standard countersinks - weelll - no better than the other competitors as they are also Chinese made.
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    287

    Default

    Sutton Viper are very good for the price. Used to be made in NZ until the factory burned down. They are rebuilding the factory. Not sure where the Vipers are being made now. P&N are not good in my experience.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2023
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Project Farm just tested drill bits (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p94UbNphysY).

    While the brands might be different it does show a (somewhat) objective way of testing drill bits. I say somewhat in they are tested on a farm not in a lab with certified instruments.

    For what it's worth I use P&N drill but I am just a hobbyist drilling timber and they work well.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Forster, NSW
    Age
    37
    Posts
    23

    Default

    P&N apparently are made in Australia according to their website. Suttons they used to say made in Australia or NZ on the packet but now omits the origin.
    I haven't used P&N in years, their bits looks like are mostly m35 colbalt.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    287

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Itms View Post
    P&N apparently are made in Australia according to their website.
    I don't see that on their website.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Forster, NSW
    Age
    37
    Posts
    23

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Brisvegas
    Posts
    6

    Default

    I recently bought some bits for their countersink thingo, made in Taiwan. So at least some P&N bits are made in Taiwan.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    287

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Itms View Post
    Yes, I saw that. But I don't see how you conclude that P&N makes their tools in Australia from:

    "Today, Sutton Tools still operates three main manufacturing sites, in:

    • Thomastown (northern Melbourne)
    • Maryborough (central Victoria)
    • Kaiapoi, New Zealand."

    If you can find a new P&N branded tool with "Made in Australia" on the label I'll be very surprised.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Forster, NSW
    Age
    37
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Suttons dont have a country of manufacture on any of their packaging either

    - - - Updated - - -

    Suttons dont have a country of manufacture on any of their packaging either.
    Unsure where there made only whats on the website

  11. #11
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    "Brownsville" Nth QLD
    Age
    66
    Posts
    385

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Itms View Post
    Suttons dont have a country of manufacture on any of their packaging either

    - - - Updated - - -

    Suttons dont have a country of manufacture on any of their packaging either.
    Unsure where there made only whats on the website
    Not true. I visited local retail outlets during the last discussion and took images of current stock packaging. Some were not labeled with country of origin, but many were including France, Japan, PRC, Taiwan, NZ .... with some even showing the 100% Australian Made logo & Made in Australia. Global manufacturing at work.
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Forster, NSW
    Age
    37
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post
    Not true. I visited local retail outlets during the last discussion and took images of current stock packaging. Some were not labeled with country of origin, but many were including France, Japan, PRC, Taiwan, NZ .... with some even showing the 100% Australian Made logo & Made in Australia. Global manufacturing at work.
    Is that for sutton and p&n?
    When i was looking at the viper line on particular there was no made on the packaging

  13. #13
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    "Brownsville" Nth QLD
    Age
    66
    Posts
    385

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Itms View Post
    Is that for sutton and p&n?
    When i was looking at the viper line on particular there was no made on the packaging
    Both. I forgot to add India above as well.

    Quite a lot of their packaging now displays no place or country of manufacture, or if shown the country of manufacture in print very much smaller than the main print around it. The packaging typically shows "100% Australian Owned" quite prominently. I visited high turnover tool stores and the green shed. I have drill bits purchased over a decade ago still in packaging that is definitely marked with "Made in Australia" and displaying the Australian Made logo etc. Some even show the place of manufacture.

    Have a look at Sutton's Merchandiser Catalogue to see the brands and lines Sutton supplies - very slick retail marketing displays etc. Sutton Tools Merchandiser Catalogue 2022 by Sutton Tools - Issuu

    Then there is the tens of thousands of lines of products, ranges and sizing Sutton supplies.

    Drill bits -

    62 page Trade DIY drill bit catalogue = https://suttontools-2022.s3-ap-south...s.com/Brochure and Catalogue/Catalogues/Sutton Tools/2_Consumer Catalogue Drilling.pdf

    https://suttontools-2022.s3.ap-south...L+brochure.pdf

    https://suttontools-2022.s3.ap-south...lls_EuroEN.pdf

    I have no problem with the global supply model IF the company maintains quality. There is no doubting Sutton Tools expertise in designing and supplying "World class cutting tools."

    I don't like "clever" advertising, promotion & packaging that is quite deliberately and calculatedly designed by the advertising guru's to form the impression that we are some how supporting Aussie jobs. Misleading ??? perhaps not in a strictly legal sense. The trade DIY side of their business has quite slick retail merchandising.

    Have look for yourself at their brochures - no prominent place of manufacture Brochures | Sutton Tools

    This was in the 174 Mb 362 page 2022 Consumer Catalogue -
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Mobyturns; 23rd January 2024 at 08:48 AM. Reason: WIP now done
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  14. #14
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    "Brownsville" Nth QLD
    Age
    66
    Posts
    385

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Itms View Post
    I am looking at new general purpose drill bits. Is there a difference between them as owned by same company?
    Any other suggestions
    Back to the original Q - "is there a difference between them."

    On the tradie & retail consumer side there is definitely benefits in the various drill bit designs in real world situations. Point angle, cutting face shape etc will offer various pro's and cons such as longevity, wear, risk of damage, performance, drilling force required, power required etc

    In my experience with wood turning & doing a lot drilling into end grain for pepper mill, pen and project blanks the Viper out performs all others by a country mile and then some. However when it comes to end grain QLD Maple - all bets are off - even with the Viper bits!

    Same applies to Forstner style bit designs, some brands & designs definitely perform very well over all with hole specifications etc. But not always and not in all woods!

    Viper bits cut more cleanly with less force and less power required. Resharpen them with the Tormek DB22 to the 4 facet cutting face very significantly improves their performance to a much higher level - in my main application. However if you use that same grind for drilling in mild steel steel it becomes far more fragile.
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    287

    Default

    I just rang Sutton head office in Melbourne. The "gatekeeper" on reception wouldn't put me through to anyone who could answer my questions. But she did give me the email address of Dianne, who in in charge of their imported tools section. The receptionist did say that P&N tools are "probably not" made in Australia.
    She also said some of the viper drill bits are made in NZ at what's left of the old factory while the new factory is being built.

    I've emailed Dianne and asked her where P&N tools are made. Standby.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •