Time for another project or two......1800's Piano Stool

[Lawry01]

Well folks, after recovering from the desk project, and learning so much in the process, I feel the need for a smaller project or two to keep my hand in, and learn a bit more as I go from the wise ones on here!!
I have my old piano stool, I think dating back to mid/ late 1800's, (the piano it came with when we bought it was dated 1860's) and it needs some work! Also, an old crappy little cute table I bought for $10 to practice a few things on.

So, first things first...the piano stool:

So....beautiful patina, (unsure what the timber is..any ideas welcome) but needs some work on the finish. It looks like it has been shellaced, and I think this is whats left of its original finish. Legs etc. are all still solid etc. Also, I need to re-do the seat upholstery. The leather is in good nick, but needs to be re-seated. Not sure how yet, but will research. However..problem...., the seat hinges have been put on the other side at some stage , around 40 years back from memory (been in the family for longer) as the original recessed spot has cracked (see pics) so now it doesn't even sit flush. I would like to fix the crack and re position it in a recess. Also, the timber on the other (now hinged) side has a large crack through , most likely from the seat being opened and pushed open too far. (If only I respected this frurniture when I was a wee lad!!! )

Ideas/ advice on any of the above would be great.

The little table..I'll do a separate thread....its more about practicing my finishing, and maybe a bit of glueing of old laminate.

So, whilst we wait for the likes of HC Dave & a few others to get some progress, here's a little WIP from me to play with.

Cheers folks, in anticipation of some fun and a good result! Lawry

[Lawry01]

Well, the good news is I've started. The bad news is that when I removed the seat section, I saw that part of the frame on which the seat webbing was tacked has been broken right off. The pics show the damage. What I don't know is the best way to attack this. The webbing has been tacked from the seat side, then tucked underneath the wadding etc. , so it sits well, but of course, this aided the splitting of the old timber.

I want to avoid removing the leather upholstry, and re-tension some new webbing from underneath, but looking at it, not sure I can short cut. I think I have to remove the whole thing and start over. However, looking at the frame (2nd last pic) it does appear that the webbing was, at some stage (orginally perhaps), tacked from the underside, judging by the old holes. If I remove the leather and do it all from the top side, I'm not sure how I can re-fit the leather and tension it over the wadding. Never having done this before, I'm a little befuddled!
The pics show the broken off piece of frame, and webbing ,
Any ideas welcome. Many thanks, Lawry

[Grandad-5]

I want to avoid removing the leather upholstry, and re-tension some new webbing from underneath, but looking at it, not sure I can short cut. I think I have to remove the whole thing and start over. However, looking at the frame (2nd last pic) it does appear that the webbing was, at some stage (orginally perhaps), tacked from the underside, judging by the old holes. If I remove the leather and do it all from the top side, I'm not sure how I can re-fit the leather and tension it over the wadding. Never having done this before, I'm a little befuddled!
The pics show the broken off piece of frame, and webbing ,
Any ideas welcome. Many thanks, Lawry

Hi Lawry,
Google "Traditional upholstery DIY" and see what you find. Many years ago I found a local community house offering hobby courses including upholstery. There may be one near you.
What you have in front of you is not that difficult to master.
Everything starts from the bottom.
In order, Webbing. (No springs in your case) then burlap layer, wadding, calico then leather. Final step is calico across the bottom.
You can re-use most of what you already have. Wadding leather etc.
Try that Howards leather product first perhaps to soften it up.
Webbing is cheap and the so-called "Special" tool to tension it is easily made. I can help with pics etc on that one.
Use blue tacks, not staples please. Burlap and Calico both readily available.
Cheers
Jim

[rhancock]

I don't know if it will help, but at the last Timber show in Brisbane there was a company selling upholstery stuff. I can't remember the name, but it was something obvious like The Upholstery Supply company.

[Lawry01]

Thanks Jim, .
You've just taught me something! I always thought the LAST thing to go on was the webbing, in order to tension up the whole kit & kaboodle.and 'puff up' the cushioning! But if, as you say, its the reverse, then I think I have the makings of a plan of action!! I was hesitant to remove the leather and the studs, but obviously, thats how I need to progress. So...I'll do a bit of web surfing around traditional upholstery. And yes...I've saved as many of the blue tacks as I could so far, and figure I can buy more as I need them. Also, I think you're right that I can re-use most of the materials that are there already. Re the 'special' tool...would appreciate your pics etc. so I can have a go at making one.

Rhancock..I think the folks you';re talking about are Padghams upholstery...great people, great products from what I've seen, and I think also a supporter of this forum!? They are Melbourne based. I had a good chat to them at the Brisbane show....(in partcular about re-webbing an antique chaise i have to do some work on) but obviously I failed to connect with the lesson around order of work! Back to grasshopper status for a bit!

Thanks again guys. Lawry

[Grandad-5]

Ok Lawry, here we go.
Attachment 215894
Sorry for the lousy photo but basically it's just a piece of 19mm radiata (Or whatever you wish to use. Approx 150mm long. Best to have the grain run lengthwise.
I copied the one my teacher at the time was using re shape but the only real requirement is that the row of nails across the top is roughly the same width as the webbing.
Predrill slightly for a row of say 2mm nails into the leading edge. Cut the heads all off and leave maybe 5mm showing. Then sharpen those ends with a file.

To use. (I'm referring back to notes I made 30 yrs ago)
Start with the new webbing folded over about 15mm on the far side of the frame. Use 3x 15mm tacks. (Buy new ones. They're dead cheap)

You use the tensioner by using the sharpened points to grab the webbing, and the opposite end on the rail hearest you. Use the leverage to pull the webbing tight. How tight.....good question. Not so tight you pull your frame apart but tight enough that you can feel considerable tightness.
Use 3 x 15mm tacks to attach to the frame whilst under tension.
Cut off excess leaving enough to fold the remaining back over the tacks and drive in two more 15mm in between the original 3.

When springs are involved you arrange the webbing so the springs are in a sguare of 4 runs of webbing, but in your case just copy the original spacing. Not critical.

Weave the webbing from both directions.

Next is the hessian or burlap tacked around the edge.
Usually horse hair was the next step, or coconut fibre for the non purists.
In your case skip that step and go straight to wadding.
The skill here is to lay the wadding out as smooth as possible.
When you then put the calico on, it should be as smooth as a baby's whatsit.

There is a little bit of skill involved with this step actually. But using leather as the final cover makes it easier. Normal cloth can show every little dip and bump. A "Cheats" way to circumvent a lack of skill is to cover the calico first with a thin layer..(4mm to 5mm) soft foam rubber with contact adhesive. Chamfer the edges with a razor blade so no edge is evident.

Next is the leather, pulled taught as you tack it down. Work it around as you tack.

A strip of leather folded around the edge and tacked down with decorative tacks finishes the top.

Lastly, flip the seat over and tack some calico underneath to act as a dust trap. Fold over the edges as you go.

This really is one of those things that is so much easier to show than describe. Maybe if you read this, then watch some U-Tube videos it might start falling into place.

Otherwise, just ask for more explanation.

BTW...my teacher told us a drop in seat from a dining chair is the perfect beginners project as it is small but has all the steps involved inc springs and horsehair. Your seat is easier again. You'll do just fine re-doing it. Just take your time.

Cheers
Jim

[Lawry01]

Jim.//huge gratitude for the advice/ lesson here! I'll be getting stuck into it in the next few days, work permitting! I'll have go at manufacturing my own tensioner too. I see that I was wrong about the need to tension into the surface material (leather in this case) and obviously, no need for anything more than firm hand pulled tension on that to tack down over the wadding. WIll post WIP as I go! As I removed bits & pieces from the bottom, I did take note of how they appeared to be put on, incliding folding over etc., so this will help as an adjunct to your tips/ steps. Quick question though..the broken piece of frame...looks so splintered that whilst I may be able to re-glue it, it wont actually hold any tension accept any tacks...I asume I just find a more intact part of the frame to tack into on that side? I know some would say this piece isn't worth the effort, but I reckon it looks great, and it has strong memories & sentimental value...when my parents & I first came to Oz back in '65, this (with the German Berlitz made 1870's piano) was actually the first piece of furniture they actually bought (other than basic table & chair setting to eagt on!) I learned piano before we arrived, from 3 years old, and continued on this beatifully carved piece until I STUPIDLY sold it a number of hears back as it was 'unable to be tuned to concert pitch any more...FOOL!! At least I held onto the stool..whilst nowhere near the value of the piano, it is at least something of my past!
Anyway, Cheers, & thanks again.!

[Grandad-5]

Quick question though..the broken piece of frame...looks so splintered that whilst I may be able to re-glue it, it wont actually hold any tension accept any tacks...I asume I just find a more intact part of the frame to tack into on that side?

I think I should leave any advice in that area to people here who have much more experience in woodworking than I. You may be able to repair/replace/fill etc
I'm sure someone will help. A pic of the bare frame might help there.
But I thank you for asking.
It's good to have an opportunity to actually give something back for a change on this forum.

Jim

[Lawry01]

I
It's good to have an opportunity to actually give something back for a change on this forum.

Jim

...I know what you mean..& its appreciated, Jim!! Lawry

[Horsecroft88]

Hi Lawry et al. So i have just read through the story so far re your stool and totally understand the reasoning behind wanting to repair it properly. Family memories are often the best reason for retaining and caring for such things.

Jim's description of how to repair/recover the seat padding is spot on from my very limited experience in this area. Last year, I did an Adult Ed course in furniture upholstery and re-covered my chesterfield. When I started the course I had absolutely no idea how to do it, but by the end of the course I had the basics down ok. Er in doors, on the other hand is a dab hand at this sort of thing having recovered/repaired, a ladies chair, ladies couch, double end (early colonial) couch and two lounge chairs (all antiques).

Would be interested to see a pic of the broken/splintered frame to see what might be possible.

Looking at the stool, I have been pondering what sort of timber it might be and to be honest I am not sure. Hazarding a guess, I would tend to suggest at a pinch cedar, but possibly/more likely, some sort of hardwood (oak - Aussie not English), or alternatively blackwood ??. It could even be mahagony but I can't tell from the pics. Either way though yes given the design, almost certainly it has been french polished (shellac finish), so and given your non Grasshopper status in this department that should be quite achievable.

Looking at the seat hinge area, my suggest would be to glue it, using something like the Selly's product I mentioned in my thread. This glue is super strong. But in repairing it, clamp it, after squeezing in glue and wiping off any excess. You could also perhaps (and I say that flinching), also add a couple of fine brads or tiny nails or fine screws from the inside to give horizontal pinch/strength to the area, given it has previously cracked. If you do this, make sure the heads are not visible, so counter sink and putty up the holes. I would only go to this step if you are concerned that glue alone won't make the original hinge area strong enough. If the screw holes themselves are too flogged out for the screws you have, I think (and others might have better ideas), is (a) to use a slightly wider diameter/longer screw or possibly fill the holes with a hard product, the Selleys glue might work (as I say it is amazing stuff) and then simply re-screw into it.

As ever all the best with the project, and keep us all posted how it goes.

[Lawry01]

Thanks folks..will remove the leather today/ tomorow & post pics of the frame + splintered piece. Will also have a go at gluing the hinge area as suggested. Whilst these tasks are in progress, I might even have a go at working on the finish on part of the main stool box. Onwards & upwards!! Lawry

[Christos]

Another one to follow. Is this going to be a house full of furniture?

[Lawry01]

Another one to follow. Is this going to be a house full of furniture?

Tikanis Christos! Wel..it has been a bit cold here in Brisvegas, specially down my neck of the woods, so perhaps some extra firewood if the projects dont eventuate accoding to plan!!!!!!! Good to see the voyeurs coming out of the woodwork Lawry

[Lawry01]

Evening folks! Friday! Took a long 5 days to get here!!

Quick WIP report. Removed all the upholstery and bit and bobs from the seat. This thing looks like an acupuncture model...so many tacks and old tack holes..more hole than wood in some spots. So, what I've discovered: Obviously, the broken section of the frame and its surrounds are quite weak. (last pic) I've also found, to my dismay, that the other side of the frame (lengthwise) is showing signs of similar splitting. (2nd & 3rd pic) My guess is too many tacks ov er the years, and maybe over tightening of the webbing at some point in history. Anyway..what to do?????? All I can think of at this stage is to seat the new webbing, and thus the upholstery, further out into the frame..maybe a cm. or so form the cracked areas. I still would like to keep this as original as possible, but have also wondered about maybe not using webbing at all, and simply tacking in a piece of board underneath. Yes I know...violation!!!!!!!! As always, input very welcome.
Wife has just entered the cave & suggested its time I came up for a drink...hard to argue!!! Cheers, lawry

[Grandad-5]

G'day Lawry.
I was really hoping someone with more experience would offer some advice on how to repair that frame. Maybe if I try someone will jump in and correct my advice.
I have nil training and very little experience in restoration work so most jobs I tackle start with a lot of head scratching and pondering of how I might accomplish what I'm trying to do.
If that frame was sitting on my workbench I think this is what I would try.

Re-glue the loose bit with something strong like Gorilla glue. Then mix up some epoxy resin and try to fill all the old tack holes. Maybe mask off the "good" areas of the frame. I'd probably try to be a bit generous with the epoxy and really squeeze it into the holes. After drying I'd use the steel from an old plane I have here as a scraper to scrape the excess off and give me a level work area. Remembering that it's all going to be hidden with the upholstery.

Ok...Working on the principle that "That ought to work", I hope someone will come in with a better method. My method sounds just a little butcher like. Because it is.

Cheers
Jim