To Screw or Nail????

[inaminit]

Morning all,

I will be replacing the deck shortly, after finally deciding on the timber to use, my latest issue is should I use screws or nails??

I will be putting down 90x19mm Northern Box hardwood boards onto existing hardwood joists (reeded side down of course). I believe that this timber is very hard and that nails guns dont like it very much, so if I was to nail, it would be by hand.

So I am prepared to use a lot of elbow grease, and just wanted to get some opinions on which method would provide the best finish, be the most durable and require the least maintenance as years go by.

Thanks

[ribot]

Seems like you will have to predrill whichever way you go so if you were the patient type you could use those square drive screws, they would certainly look good. Dont forget to stagger your nailing or screwing for fear of splitting the joists.

[inaminit]

Thanks Ribot,

Had a look at those screws, and yeah, I think they would look good on the deck.

Thanks for the advice on staggering the screws, I think SWMBO needed to hear it from someone else!!!

[Trav]

Screws are more expensive. I also had lots pf problems with some SS square drive screws when making a garden screen - the heads kept shearing off. SOlved the problem by drilling a bigger pilot hole.

For a whole deck I'd go with the twist-shank gal nails - maily because of the cost and the look. The screws would be very obvious with two per board - not to mention expensive.

My 2c worth

Good luck

Trav

[inaminit]

Trav, thanks for the words of wisdom. I'm going to get a hanful of the screws to do a test and see how they look.

Thanks again.

[Simmering]

For what it is worth, I did my deck with the gal nails with the twist in the shank and they worked a treat. Of course, I still pre-drilled the holes, offset to avoid splitting. These nails also have a domed head which means that they are not a hazard to bare feet even if not driven home fully (or rather if they protrude over time due to movement)

[inaminit]

Sorry about taking a while to say thanks, but been away for a few days. Anyway I recon that the twist shank nails will be the way to go. Now I've just gotta convince the boss that it's worth it!! She almost died when I told her how much it was!

[SteveI]

As an alternative

On some episodes of This Old House, they used marine adhesive for the decking - held it down with a few stainless steel nails to give the glue time to dry.

I think they claimed they'd been doing it that way for seven years without a failure.

[conwood]

Up here in qld we have batten screws which are hex drive and come in galv. They are very good for this sort of application, particularly on large hardwood boards.

Whilst I don't know the size of the boards you could use normal galv screws. Either way pre-drilling would be essential.

Other Info- I have recently seen that black plastic (damp course) used as a wrap on the bearers and then the boards placed over. This stops water from contacting the bearers.

Also seen screws and nails in deck applications left flush with the surface, not counter sunk. Apparently counter sinking leaves a depression in which water can gather accelerating rot.

Cheers,
Conwood

[DayDreamer]

For what it is worth, I did my deck with the gal nails with the twist in the shank and they worked a treat. Of course, I still pre-drilled the holes, offset to avoid splitting. These nails also have a domed head which means that they are not a hazard to bare feet even if not driven home fully (or rather if they protrude over time due to movement)

To a newbie, can you explain what you mean by offsetting the holes to avoid splitting? Wont that mean that the nail/screw heads aren't in a uniform line? Or, is it like a zigzag pattern that gets formed across multiple boards?

[strangerep]

To a newbie, can you explain what you mean by offsetting the holes to avoid splitting? Wont that mean that the nail/screw heads aren't in a uniform line? Or, is it like a zigzag pattern that gets formed across multiple boards?

Yes, it forms a zigzag pattern. Such offsetting is the correct way to do it, as
shown (for example) in Alan Staines' book "The Australian Deck & Pergola
Construction Manual". (If you don't already have a copy, it's an essential
investment for a newbie, IMHO.)

If you make up a little template with 2 holes you'll be able to get each pair
of nails/screws in exactly the same place on each board, relative to the
supporting joist underneath. The zigzag pattern doesn't look too bad when
it follows the joist line uniformly. OTOH, if you were to just do it freehand,
it would look rather worse.

[UteMad]

Stainless screws wins hands down on quality and holding power....

The trick is getting the right pilot and countersink in one (carbitool 10g is the pick at $50) and not getting the wrong screws.... Too many people are falling for the 8g or supposed 10g chipboard variety stainless screws these tend to have a weakness just below the countersink.... a true 10g screw should look like a 10g wood screw with a thickened shaft so they don't sheer off and a proper thread with a type 17 cutter in the end.....

Its the wrong screw and not the right gauge thats getting everyone unstuck with screwing......

We put in 2000 screws a deck in approx 3hrs and damage prob 5 screws and ruin 1 - 3 tips (they explode when used with impact drivers) Hardwood deck treated joists

cheers utemad

www.dialadeck.com.au

[Burnsy]

Stainless screws wins hands down on quality and holding power....

The trick is getting the right pilot and countersink in one (carbitool 10g is the pick at $50)

Snappy (USA) also make a great pilot/countersink bits and around $28. UteMad, does the carbitool have a shoulder that drills clearance through the decking and then pilot into joist or is it just countersink then pilot? The snappy is just countersink then pilot bit, no shoulder for clearance. Out of interest, what size pilot do you use for 10g into hardwood joists, I have used 1/8 in the past but it is not common to use hardwood for joists over here unless it is putting new boards down on an old veranda? Everything is directed toward treated pine here now, with the odd deck done with C section and self drilling wing teks, jarrah is just to expensive and it is not necessarily better.

[UteMad]

Hi Burnsy

No the carbitool one is a 1/8 drill bit with a twin carbide tipped countersink.. For treated joists we set the drill bit just below the board and use the type 17 cutter in the screw to do the joist.... The screws will self drill and countersink into hardwood decking without even a pilot hole but the finish around the head is rough and there is too much pressure on the board which will in my opinion split the board in a few months when it dries out.....Our cheaper 10 buck pilot holers have a shoulder for clearance and a smaller pilot but they clog and can't take the speed or the amount of holes required for decking ....

cheers Utemad

[Burnsy]

Sounds like the carbitool is the same as the snappy, ask around at your tool stores you may find they are as good, I have had no problem with mine and you can change out the bits same as you say, might save you $20 per throw. I think I still have the packet around if you want the details from it.