CBUS Home Automation

[silentC]

I received some info from Clipsal last night on CBUS and their home networking products. Just wondering if anyone has experience with this stuff they would like to share? They say it's 'inexpensive' but is that inexpensive to me or inexpensive to someone who would pay $10,000 for a bathtub?

I like the idea of the networking feature - you can stick all your VCRs and satellite receivers on the network and access them from any TV in the house. They have a remote IR receiver so you can use the remote control from any TV too. You can have a camera on the front door and view it from any TV in the house. Stuff like that. Is it worth the trouble and the cost?

[craigb]

Could you at least run the wiring?

That way you've got it there if you win the lottery or something at a later date and can afford to get the full box and dice.

[silentC]

Yeah that was what I was wondering. Now's the time to do it.

[echnidna]

Made just for the dark siders

[bitingmidge]

No. (but I'd do it again )

Beware: this is my second-last login for a month so it'll be a long post~!

It might even be two posts!

I deal a lot in high-end houses/apartments, and have seen installations ranging from $2,000 to nearly $200,000.

One of my clients has a very valuable beach house which he visits maybe twice a year, he has the full remote facility, to the extent that he can dial in, open the garage door, unlock the front door to let in a repair guy, turn on the airconditioner, turn off security zones and monitor what's going on on the internet.

Of course in that installation, the entertainment system is linked to just about everything, the sprinkler timers can boil an egg, and all the stuff you've read about can be done.

At the other extreme I have a basic bus installation, operating lights only. All lights have dimmers, each switch can be individually programmed, and all lights come on when the fire alarm goes off. There are built in timers.

I was going to link the sprinklers to it, but a good four stage controller costs about $120.00, less than the cost of wiring to the C-bus +programming.

I was going to give the Star-Bus a go, but for a few dollars, any clever Comms tech can wire the same configuration using jumpers in a distribution board for a couple of thousand dollars less. We can now reticulate as you describe using one set top box, DVD etc, to each point in the house.

I was going to do one of their reticulated sound/ IR control things, but for less money bought a really flash Bose system which does it better anyway.

I did get an IR control, which lets my mum turn off her bedroom light without getting out of bed when she's visiting, and that's OK, but don't think you're going to use it in any other situation, by the time you find the controller you could have walked from one end of the house to the other and turned off all the lights, besides it's only a line of site thing.

Conclusions:

Cons
It's expensive.
In it's basic installation it does nothing that an analogue system won't do
Once committed to it, there's no going back, all wiring goes back to the switchboard, switches are computer senders only not electrical switches.
It doesn't do anything that can't be done with a basic installation and a lot of mucking around.
Software is buggy, and you will know a lot more about programming the system than the blokes you are paying to do it. (Get a copy of the software and their basic installation programme)

Pros
It's cool in a gadgetty blokey sort of way, although Mrs Midge likes it more than I do.
Complete flexibility in programming, any switch point can power any light anywhere.
Examples in our house:
"Panic" switch next to the bed which turns every light on.
"Panic" switch next to the bed which turns every outside light on.
"WeeWee" switch next to the bed which turns one bed room light, hall light, kitchen, ensuite all at 25% illumination.
"Master" switches beside bed and also in garage which turn off all lights.
"Power Saver" One switch turns on bathroom light, fan and heater, but fan and heater turn off automatically after 15 and 10 minutes respectively. Each is also individually controlled.
"Pantry" switch on a five minute timer

Of course you would programme heating timers and over-rides in, just as we have variable speed ceiling fans controlled from three positions in our bedroom. Completely unneccessary, but we like it.

There are heaps more, and odd lights linked in circuits in different ways.
Programming is limitless (and probably pointless) and once set up you'll never touch it probably.

It's probably the next big thing, if you worry about that sort of thing.

I got the hardware at a substantial discount, and if I'd paid retail would probably be looking at about $4,000 more than a straight installation. We'd do it again, but neither of us can say why... it doesn't make sense, but there you have it.

It's a day-long topic, so am happy to answer questions from a user perspective. Just get in quick or you'll have to wait till September!



P

[Grunt]

"WeeWee" switch next to the bed which turns one bed room light, hall light, kitchen, ensuite all at 25% illumination.

At your age this is a necessity.

[silentC]

Thanks Midge. I knew you'd be on the case

A couple of questions:

Do you need to know what you're likely to hook up before you put the wiring in? Being a bus system, I'd think not but are there limitations on what you can connect?

When it comes to controlling things like heating/air and so on, is it just switch on/off or does it get smarter - do you have to buy CBUS enabled appliances?

I had a feeling that a lot of the stuff it does could be done better by specific gadgets but I like the idea of being able to control everything through one interface. Yet there is always something in the house that wont talk to the system and so that defeats the prupose somewhat.

The wife likes the idea of calling the house and saying "I'm on my way home" so that it would switch on the heater and the lights (and fill the spa bath and heat it up, pop the champaigne cork etc etc).

In reality, I would probably only put in the lighting control and a camera on the front yard and maybe the rumpus room so I can watch the kids from the shed! Yes, I'm serious.

I suppose you have to run the CBUS cabling and then there would be coax and other cabling for the TV networking stuff...

[bitingmidge]

Do you need to know what you're likely to hook up before you put the wiring in? Being a bus system, I'd think not but are there limitations on what you can connect?

No. Within reason, as long as you can get the cables back to the bus, you can do whatever you like whenever. Because the "switching" is just to cat 5 comms cable daisy chained, you can add more controls anywhere or reprogramme existing ones to suit the new device.

Obviously current draw limitations will apply(!) but because the cabling is in a straight line it's usually pretty easy to retrofit that bit. Electrical cabling is the cheap bit of the system, on our house we "saved" $2,500 in cabling compared to an analogue version of the same system.

New systems designed for retrofits have wireless controls so the flexibility is not an issue.

When it comes to controlling things like heating/air and so on, is it just switch on/off or does it get smarter - do you have to buy CBUS enabled appliances?

It can get as smart as you can afford. Sophisticated time clocks are really easy, a phone/internet interface costs jigger all if you make provision at the start.
No. I don't have any CBus power points. Try as I did to justify the cost, I couldn't forsee a situation where I would ever need to control a device remotely. Let's face it TV recorders (particularly the new digital ones) and even ovens have pretty sophisticated timers themselves, and they don't need to be over-ridden.

I had a feeling that a lot of the stuff it does could be done better by specific gadgets but I like the idea of being able to control everything through one interface. Yet there is always something in the house that wont talk to the system and so that defeats the prupose somewhat.

I haven't worked out the purpose yet, but when I do I'll let you know . As mentioned above, the lighting is a gimmick but good. Security linked in works well. Heating controls work well. Things that run by timers work well, but in my view the ability to turn them on outside of timer hours is the key.

The wife likes the idea of calling the house and saying "I'm on my way home" so that it would switch on the heater and the lights (and fill the spa bath and heat it up, pop the champaigne cork etc etc).

All possible except the champaigne cork. Expensive, but possible. The dial in heater/airconditioner is probably the next step from lighting, and the one that I've seen mostly.[/QUOTE]

Interestingly I think, the guys selling the stuff tend to be home entertainment guys, and their focus seems to be on that stuff, which already has pretty sophisticated controls. I think the "benefits" are in the far more mundane areas which don't have the controls as standard.

In reality, I would probably only put in the lighting control and a camera on the front yard and maybe the rumpus room so I can watch the kids from the shed! Yes, I'm serious.

I've looked at similar. Lighting and heating(if we had any). Think about whether you'd be better using wireless computer cameras and a cheap 'puter as a monitor. Wireless networking is a beauty and you can talk to us from our shed too.

It's easy to set up either system to log in via the web and see what's going on. We used to check on our shops that way.

I'm not a fan of TV's for monitoring purposes, usually you have to check on stuff just as Warney's about to bowl the ball of the century. You don't need it in house anyway...four steps to the front door!! (different if you live on the 20th floor.)

I suppose you have to run the CBUS cabling and then there would be coax and other cabling for the TV networking stuff...

Yep.

TV although it may be worth getting a phone/data point near the TV for future pay for view stuff, and we are putting them in kitchens to connect internet fridges.
:eek:

All the fridges do is have an internet monitor, and there are already systems available to link all the different systems via a web interface. Not hard to do yourself if you a bit handy, and a real geekfreek.

Cheers,

P

[bitingmidge]

Could you at least run the wiring?

That way you've got it there if you win the lottery or something at a later date and can afford to get the full box and dice.

Sadly no.

Two completely different wiring setups. We used the basic version to get us set up for the lottery win!

Cheers,

P

[bitingmidge]

At your age this is a necessity.

A portent of things to come for you too methinks!!


P

[silentC]

OK, so for example, with lighting where is the switching/dimming actually done? At the BUS controller or somewhere else? There would either have to be 240v wiring from each light back to the controller, or there would have to be a local controller with each light, wouldn't there? Do you have a broom cupboard full of black boxes?

[journeyman Mick]

Our local high school has everything running through CBUS, lights, power points, fans, airconditioning, bells etc etc. I worked there for a few months while I did my teaching prac and in that short space of time a technician had to come quite a few times to reprogramme and trouble shoot. School bells going off at wrong times, some equipment in man arts not powering up, lights turning on and off at innapropriate times etc etc. I don't know how sensitive these setups are to supply voltage fluctuations, but we do have a pretty variable power supply in our area. I guess all these systems are great when working but a real pain in the backside when not.

The last boat fitout I did had all the engine management controls fully computerised. It almost didn't get launched on time because the "Love Bug" virus (remeber that?) had disrupted all the email of the company who built the motors (German company). The motors are shipped with blank chips, technician comes on site and programs chips from a tailored package that's emailed to him. Motors are programmed to suit operating conditions, hull shape etc etc. Anyway they got it up and running (just) and then on sea trials a hose burst which sprayed salty water all over one of the engine room modules. Motors still ran, but no gears selectable on transmissions. So the boat bobbed around for a few hours while we got in contact with the manufacturers, we had to unplug all the boxes and plug them back in again. Got it all running but I'm really leery of a system that has all your contols (steering, throttles & gears) all connected to little black boxes connected with ribbon cables.

I guess a malfunction in a home system wouldn't be catastrophic but it would be damn annoying and who knows how long before these systems become unstable. Now I'm definitely not a dark sider, but I like to control my electrons manually. I guess though that as you're a proffesional geek Darren (using it as a technical term, no offense intended) it wouldn't seem as arcane to you.

Mick

[silentC]

it would be damn annoying

Especially if it turned on all the house lights at 3:00am :eek:

Whilst it's true that I'm a programmer in my day job, I absolutely hate working on computers and they give me the when they don't work. I'm not looking for any extra stress, that's for sure....

[bitingmidge]

OK, so for example, with lighting where is the switching/dimming actually done? At the BUS controller or somewhere else? There would either have to be 240v wiring from each light back to the controller, or there would have to be a local controller with each light, wouldn't there? Do you have a broom cupboard full of black boxes?

The BUS is just that, a bus bar with all the stuff plugged in at that point.

Curiously I do have a broom cupboard (will post the pics tonight), see #5 on Midge's playroom plan! All the black boxes clip onto the bar. The wiring goes from each light back to the Bus.

Some of the light fittings available have local controllers as well, but at that point I give up trying to understand, explain or excuse. I just don't see the point!

In response to Mick: we have surge, lightning and all the other protection built in to the switch setup, so the whole house is protected.
Initial programming was a painful process mostly due to the fact that it was the electrician's first attempt and he was still learning (part of the deal I did with him to make the cost a bit workable!).

I fully expect that at some time in the future some of the smart bits will die, but I figure that the cost of fixing will be somewhat less by then.

As far as the programming goes, it's just a database for crying out loud, but the guys doing it usually make it hard because they are used to using pliers and crimping tools not keyboards.

I have had a few jobs which took a few days to sort out, but don't know of one that has gone out of whack once programmed.

As I said in the beginning it doesn't do anything you can't do in another way, (although it is a lot more elegant than having a panel with 30 dimmers on it).

My motivation was one of those "money where your mouth is" things to see if it was really like the fuss. I still can't logically explain why we would do it again, those that know it's there bag us remorselessly, those that don't..... don't.

We like it though.

:confused:
P

[silentC]

If you could run a single power loop for your lighting and have a switching unit attached to each, then just the low voltage cable back to the bus, it would save a lot of money on cable, but then you would have the cost of the remote unit. It would probably make a lot more sense to do it that way if you were putting in a wireless system.

I suppose it depends on the 'granularity' you want. You probably wouldn't wire every single light back to the bus, they'd be in banks eg. half the downlights in the lounge to one switch and half to another, so you can switch them off and on in groups. If you want individual control over each light, you probably need to see someone about your obsessive/compulsive syndrome.

Is the programming done through the controller itself, or do you plug in a laptop?