TSC-10HB - What's all the fuss. :)

[monoman]

Got my TS delivered this arvo and spent the next 2 hours setting it up. Many thanks to Dazzler for his posting on assembling it http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...light=tsc-10hb


From thread: MJ-2325B Table saw.

I'll think I'll go for the TS10HB, and deal with the power issues later. Although, I was told by a sparkie that I better have a good sniff around the house before going to bed.

Okay, so I finished setting it up, plugged in the power, turned off all non-essential lights to reduce power load, and gently prodded the button - it quietly came to life. The lights barely dimmed, and the TS just quietly hummed. Nice.

All that senseless worry for naught. It seems to draw less power than the 2HP rated MJ-2325B - go figure.

Cheers

[Auld Bassoon]

Got my TS delivered this arvo and spent the next 2 hours setting it up. Many thanks to Dazzler for his posting on assembling it http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...light=tsc-10hb


From thread: MJ-2325B Table saw.



Okay, so I finished setting it up, plugged in the power, turned off all non-essential lights to reduce power load, and gently prodded the button - it quietly came to life. The lights barely dimmed, and the TS just quietly hummed. Nice.

All that senseless worry for naught. It seems to draw less power than the 2HP rated MJ-2325B - go figure.

Cheers

Induction (high start-up current) versus brushed (lower start-up load) perhaps? - or have I got that as* backwards

As to the advice to "go around the house a have a good sniff before going to bed" Cor! I wouldn't sleep for hours!

Cheers!

[DavidW]

Lucky beggar, Brisbane has run out, mine is on a slow boat from China or Taiwan and wont arrive till around 14 August.

[monoman]

As to the advice to "go around the house a have a good sniff before going to bed" Cor! I wouldn't sleep for hours!

Cheers!

Hi,

Don't think it'll do much good. I've got an open fireplace so don't think I'll notice the odd wire smoldering.

Seriously, I can't see it being an issue at all. My Festool DC combined with the saw or router dims the lights more than this TS. I'm going to sleep well tonight.

Cheers

[monoman]

Lucky beggar, Brisbane has run out, mine is on a slow boat from China or Taiwan and wont arrive till arounf 14 August.

Thanks David. So then, only 25 more sleeps.

[DavidW]

:

Thanks David. So then, only 25 more sleeps.

Plus a few more till I can get to Brisbane to pick it up. But ive been hanging out for one for about 2 years but something always gets in the way so a few extra days wont matter :eek

[JTonks]

It seems to draw less power than the 2HP rated MJ-2325B - go figure.

Firstly let me state that I have no electrical qualifications but here is my take on the low current draw of the saw in question. I assume from your comments that your observations are with no load on the saw.

Start up current will be higher than running current due to the motor overcoming the inertia of the rotor to accelerate it up to its running speed. Once at this speed, the only current draw will be the load imposed by mechanical friction and air resistance of the blade and the internal losses of the motor (a bit vague on this last point!)

So , your 3 HP (?) motor won't be developing 3 HP until you load it up with a substantial cut. Then you will see the amps rise.

One other point of interest 1 HP = 0.746 kw, therefore, 3HP = 2.24 kw. Assuming this is single phase, amperage = Power/Voltage so the nominal current would be 9.3 amps (assuming 240v).

Any sparkies out there, feel free to contradict me if I am completely wrong.
John

[knucklehead]

The fact that the lights dimm (as at my place) means that the power circuit is having trouble supplying the current requiments of the saw. If all is well with the power circuit then there should be no dimming of the lights. From a previous post on this start up current of my TSC10HB is about 40 amps.
Most older houses only have 6mm cable from the supply to distro board. Newer houses have 16mm cable. This combined with long power runs to a shed can realy give some trouble.

[monoman]

The fact that the lights dimm (as at my place) means that the power circuit is having trouble supplying the current requiments of the saw.

The lights dim briefly as the saw starts up, but isn't noticable under load (ripping 50mm blackbutt).

From a previous post on this start up current of my TSC10HB is about 40 amps.

Now, I don't don't that you have clamped the cable to test this. My question is, why doesn't the fuse blow, or the ciruit breaker trip, if you are drawing 40 amps. I assume you don't have a 40+ amp circuit breaker.

[AlexS]

Most older houses only have 6mm cable from the supply to distro board. Newer houses have 16mm cable.

Is there a decimal point or two missing here somewhere?

[gatiep]

The lights dim briefly as the saw starts up, but isn't noticable under load (ripping 50mm blackbutt).



Now, I don't don't that you have clamped the cable to test this. My question is, why doesn't the fuse blow, or the ciruit breaker trip, if you are drawing 40 amps. I assume you don't have a 40+ amp circuit breaker.

The 40 amp startup currentis momentarily only, i.e. a fraction of a fairy phart in time, so its all over before the circuit breaker can do anything about it. Somewhere on this board I posted what mine draws running but you'll have to search for it because I cannot remember.


As for:"Whats all the fuss................"
All the fuss is about the TSC-10HB the finest saw in the universe..............

[HavinaGo]

Hi Alex,

6mm square supply is all there is to my place (63 Jennings built place with Gas hot water and heating). 16mm square would be nice.

Following up on the question "why doesn't the circuit breaker trip" ... They are designed not to. Really big currents will trip them nearly instantly via a magnetic mechanism. Slightly over the 16Amp rating of a standard power circuit ie 17 Amps, might take several hours to trip the breaker and it is via a thermal mechanism.

The 40 Amps drawn by the induction motor is small enough to not trip the magnetic mechanism and does not last long enough to trip the thermal mechanism. There are special circuit breakers with higher magnetic setting just for use with induction motors.

For more than you want to know see the Clipsal brochure
http://alfred.clipsal.com/scripts/ap...rochure&ID=595
page 4 of the brochure (acroread says page 5/62) has a nice diagram showing the construction internally.
page 6 (7/62 in acroread) has a curve showing the time to trip on the y axis verses the ratio of current drawn to the rated current of the circuit breaker ie 1 is when 16 Amps flows through a 16 Amp circuit breaker. thus for 40 amps through a 16 amp CB, the current ratio is 2.5, from the curve that will take 10-40 seconds to trip ... by then the motor is well an truly running (we hope )

[Gumby]

All the fuss is about the TSC-10HB the finest saw in the universe..............

For a 10 inch, you may be right

[HavinaGo]

The link to Clipsal info is
http://www.clipsal.com/pdf_files/4_series_insides.pdf

It is 1.8MB

Sorry
David

[anthonyd]

Start up current will be higher than running current due to the motor overcoming the inertia of the rotor to accelerate it up to its running speed.

Not exactly but you have the right idea. It is not the mechanical inertia that nees to be overcome, but the magnetic inertia (if you want to call ti that). Remember that the windings in an induction motor is just a long piece of wire wound into a coil. When a votage is applied across the winding, for the first few milliseconds that is all that the voltage sees - a short circuit piece of wire. As a result the current is very very high. Now when the magnetic armature starts to rotate in the magnetic field of the windings it sets up a backward voltage that "opposes" the 220V supply. This opposition is what keeps the current down and prevents an overcurrent condition.

I have simplified it greatly there, but without going into lenz's or farady's laws and talking impedance and back emf's that is as simple as I can make it.