In Praise of Lee Valley/Veritas

[Vonrek]

Just recently received my first order from Lee Valley. First time I've ever bought overseas on the internet. The experience has been very good. The customer service at LV is superb. I placed an order on a Saturday night at around 11 pm. On Sunday i recived a confirmation reply with various quotes on shipping, with the added proviso that no transaction would take place until i had confirmed the shipping i chose. Therefore if the shipping was too expensive and made the whole deal futile I could simply cancel the order.
On Monday I received an email confirming the package had been sent!!
Six days later it was in my hot little hand. The goods had been securely packaged and were in perfect condition after their long flight. Even the Lee Valley packing paper had instructions on how to recycle and/or dispose of it thoughtfully!!
The goods i purchased were the low angle block plane, it felt like it had been custom made to fit my hand the moment i picked it up, the dovetail guide and saw, haven't had a chance to give this a good workout yet but first impressions are good, and the green honing compound, hello mirror finish!!.
Total cost including express post was AU$263.00 (at the time the AU$ was approx US$.73). Customs had gone through the package but it arrived without any note regarding import duty or GST, to answer a very long thread from some time back.
The block plane alone goes for $280 at MIK or Carbatec! As much as I'd love to support the local guys, this kind of deal is just too good to pass up. The other great thing is i had the woodworking and hardware catalouge sent as well , free of charge. These catalogues are a wealth of information and a virtual Alladin's cave.
You may be able to guess that I am very pleased with my purchase, and i would certainly go down this path again. In fact, the catalogues may not have been a good idea in hindsite, too many more options to spend on now.
I can highly recommend the veritas products, i have quite a few others, and with this experience i can highly recommend purchasing them direct.

Cheers
Tim

PS: Thanks must go to Rocker who kindly answered some questions i posed to him in a PM regarding his expereince with purchasing on-line from lee valley.

[Hem]

Hi Tim,

Just one question, where and how was it delivered ?
The problem I have is that I am not able to recieve any (personal) packages at work and no one is usually home. In most cases if it is aus post I go to the post office during lunch once I get the card in the mail to say they tried to deliver.
I am assuming a local delivery company is used here (Sydney). I could speak to them to find out what there policy is for people in my situation.

While our dollar is still fairly strong, I agree it is definetly a good time to take advantage of the situation.

[bloggs1968]

Hi Tim,

Totally agree with your comments on Lee Valley. I have ordered from them before and have 3 more orders on the way. My last order went missing and after 5 weeks they re sent the order without question. When the original order turned up a month later, all I had to do was send the original back to them and they refunded me the postage! Can't get much better than that.

I concur with your comments on the pricing. I too like to support the local guys but really, they are ripping us off - my apologies if this is to blunt for some. Some examples are as follows:

One of my current orders direct from lee valley is the Veritas low angle block plane. Lee Valley sell it for $99 US plus $18.21 shipping = $117.21US = $155.76. As you say, the retail over here is around the $280. I bet you too that the retailers here get them below retail as well.

Another example is another of my orders

1 Veritas Edge trimmming block Plane (05P0205) $125 US/$166.11 AU
2 Veritas Striking Knife, Rosewood Handle (05U0701) $19.95US/$26.51 AU
3 Veritas 4" Sliding Bevel (05N4402) $28.50 US/$37.88 AU
4 Veritas Bar Gauge Heads (05N3101) $10.50 US/$13.95 AU

Total plus shipping = $201.90 US or $268.34 Aust.

To price this order here (randomly selected retailers)is as follow (all in OZ $ then US $ comparison)

1 $460.00AU /$346.12 USD!!!
2 $56.25 AU/$42.32 USD
3 $72.45 AU/$54.51 USD
4 $27.31 AU/$20.55 USD

This is pretty astounding. If I bought it here would be $616.01 AUD v's the $268.34 that I am paying. Thats a difference of $347.67!!!!!

Admittedly, I probably wont be hit for customs but even so, I think it is only 5% import duty and 10%GST (correct me if I am wrong) so an increase of another $12 AU or so (assuming no GST on shipping).

Even more interesting is another order I have for a Lie Nielsen 140N. US price including shipping is $219.95 USD or $292.28 AUD.
(See http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/lie-nielsen.htm)

The best price I have seen in Aus is $458.44 with another retailer selling for $573.03!!!!

You should see the deal I got on a Starrett combination square!

I understand that some of the retailers have stock left over from when the $ was low but this is a serious mark up. They surely are aware that their clients will source products overseas.

I would really welcome any of the local suppilers who monitor this board to post and try and explain their pricing policy rationale - maybe I am missing something that would explain the vast price differences. In the meantime, I will shop locally when I can but not to the extent that I am ripping myself off.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

regards,

Andrew

[Rob Lee]

Vonrek -

Thanks for the kind words - glad to hear everything arrived promptly, and in good shape!

Until very recently - we did not have export pricing on the Veritas plane line (we didn't have the production capacity to supply the export market) - so any planes offered by Australian companies had been purchased at retail from Lee Valley. That should be changing soon....we're about to make the entire plane and spokeshave line available - you should see much more reasonable pricing soon.

Cheers -

Rob Lee
Lee Valley/Veritas

[silentC]

Firstly, I think the application of customs duties and GST is a hit and miss affair. You are probably lucky and if it was applied to the letter of the law you would almost certainly have had to pay it. For example, my wife recently bought a golf stick from the US. It cost her $AUD145 plus postage and she paid a similar amount in customs and GST. She was unlucky. However, the particular stick was not available in Australia at the time. It is now but she has still saved around $100 on the retail price by getting it from the US.

Think about it rationally - you SHOULD be paying GST because it is a consumption tax and you are consuming. Also the import duty is there as a tax on imports and you are importing. They let quite a few slip through the cracks but OzWinner will tell you that sometimes it backfires.

Secondly, the retailers will most definitely be paying import duty on the goods they import. They must pass this on to you. They must also make a margin on the sale and they have to collect GST. It's not really surprising that they charge what they do. If they are paying retail on some items, then naturally you are going to be able to get it cheaper from the US if you can circumvent the tax system the way you have be able to.

I know some people have successfully challenged customs and been able to get out of paying the duties. Good for them. I believe that paying tax is a necessary evil and if they lose tax revenue from one source, it's only going to have to be collected from somewhere else. We have to keep all of those politicians in the style to which they are accustomed, after all.

However, this does not detract from the sentiments of the thread.

[Dean]

Rob,

You pop up everywhere!

[bloggs1968]

Hey Rob,

you do pop up everywhere. It would be wonderful to see cheaper Veritas products here in Australia as I have stated that I want to support the local businesses as well. I was unaware that our retailers weren't getting export pricing. It will be interesting to see if the reductions are passed on. Oh for a favourable exchange rate! BTW my LA block was in the mail today - fantastic.

Silent C I have "officially" imported gear as well when things aren't available in Australia. My last lot of marine stuff was 5% import duty and 10%GST so it really wasn't that much extra and even when the product finally became available in Australia some 6 months later, I still saved hundreds of dollars. I am happy if customs wants their slice. Seems to depend on the delivery system. I find some mobs like DHL always have you pay customs whereas others don't - luck of the draw.

regards,

Andrew

[silentC]

Fair enough. It was the phrase "they are ripping us off" that I was replying to more than anything. No doubt there are opportunists out there and the products we're talking about are a bit of a niche market in Australia.

I happened to overhear a conversation whilst waiting to be served in a particular shop that sells these types of things. The customer in front of me had asked if there was a discount for cash. The 'retail assistant' stuck his head in the office door and asked the question and the reply went along the lines of: "we've already got the lowest price on it that we're prepared to take. Anyway, nobody else sells them in Australia - we don't need to compete with anyone, so we see no need to make it any cheaper. If he can find it cheaper somewhere else, good luck."

There was no attempt to conceal this conversation from anyone else who might have been in the shop at the time. I suppose there is an element of that in this market and most business people would probably see it as good entrepreneurial policy.

[Dean]

Good policy for the businessman. BAD IDEA letting your customers hear that. I would have walked out of the shop then and there never to return.

Its not so much the principle of the lowest price they can offer it for, but the sarcastic attitude of a company when they think they have no competition.

[silentC]

The trouble is that walking out of the shop never to return would have hurt me more than them because there are few alternatives in this country. I suppose all of this just goes to reinforce Andrew's point. Perhaps there is a fine line between a rip off and reasonable profit....

[Dean]

True, but I guess my point is that when an alternative does spring up, those words will come back to haunt them.

[davo453]

Asking if something is cheaper for cash is often a fruitful thing to do not because of competition from other sellers/retailers but because as we know the seller has to pay a commission to the credit card company.

So the reaction of said retailer was somewhat high handed, i'd still have bought it but i'd definatly use my credit card and have made a point of informing everyone I know of the experiance, bad publicity is always the best revenge.



Cheers


Dave

[bloggs1968]

Actuall guys, I was in one of our major retailers the other day discussing the very issue of pricing with them and the sales assistant told me that even he bought tools from OS online!

It's a bit telling when even a staff discount can't match online buying.

Wonder if there was a special clause in the recent Free Trade Agreement regarding Lie Nielsen gear????????


regards,

Andrew

[Ben from Vic.]

I also have an order coming from Veritas, just a small one, about $50 AUD (my cost).

And both David Charlsworth books from Amazon (cost me $58, retail $80).

Having said that, I did email MIK about the price of their LN No.7 I asked them if they were able to offer a better price on that item as a result of the stronger AUD, and this is a quote from the reply...

"I am delighted to offer you the following prices which include GST.
LN-7 $750-00"

That is down from $1000+.
When I priced it from the US the cost came to about $600 (including an expected GST hit), but in light of possible charges that seem to hit bgger orders, I'd still lean towards MIK.
If anything goes wrong, I have a close ear to talk to (chew out
).

It's just a shame it takes all the good stuff so long to be available here, and when it does arive, it cost a bucket load.


Ben.

[silentC]

I have to make a correction to my original rant, in case it might mislead someone. I asked my wife about the golf stick story last night and it seems she actually paid $AUD450 + postage for it and the GST and customs charges came to $95.

I'm sure she said it was only $145. Well, it had a 4 and a 5 in it, anyway.