Rosewood questions?

[fudo133]

Hello everyone, sorry for the slew of questions as of late, but spending a few too many hours browsing through exotic wood suppliers stocks online has gotten me rather intrigued with a handful of timbers.
I've recently come across a small stock of bois de rose/dalbergia maritima pieces for sale from a supplier in America and am very carefully considering buying it to rip into thinner pieces to use as thick veneers, however, owing to its threatened status i'm wondering what sort of trouble i could be likely to run into as far as customs is concerned and whether its worth the risk?

A little closer to home, i've also discovered a fairly large 3 foot wide by 5 foot long and 3 inch thick solid rosewood (not sure of the exact variety, its a lightish orange red colour) board/slab that's been sitting around air drying for a good 80 or 90 years for sale for about $600. Its a beautiful piece but likewise before i buy it i'd like to know what others think of it and whether it sounds like a decent deal?

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Unfortunately, common names mean very little as they are used inconsistently and unreliably. If the "rosewood" Dalbergia that you are interested in is registered as threatened then Customs will not be happy with you and you should not encourage the use. There are, after all, superb lcal timbers that are not endangered and great to use. The $600 slab that you mention sounds expensive if you do not need that exact timber for some reason and especially that he exact timber appears to be unclear. The Australian "rosewoods" are Dysoxylum sp. and are dark reddish brown timbers. So your description does not seem to fit.

[fudo133]

On the subject of conservation, its true that there are a lot of beautiful native timbers but thus far i've not found any that look quite so deep, dark or rich as dalbergia maritima (which looks extremely similar to my all time favourite wood, red sandalwood/zitan). Plus, i figure, if the wood's already been cut and is in tiny off cut sized quantities there's not much harm in buying it and not letting it go to waste considering how much of it was exported to china as imitation zitan wood a few years ago.

As for the other rosewood, its definitely not an Australian timber as i'm fairly certain it came out of a Japanese home in the 20s or 30's. the point of it being expensive has definitely been taken on board
Its a similar colour to this http://shard1.1stdibs.us.com/archive...12859992_1.jpg

[dai sensei]

...I've recently come across a small stock of bois de rose/dalbergia maritima pieces for sale from a supplier in America and am very carefully considering buying it to rip into thinner pieces to use as thick veneers, however, owing to its threatened status i'm wondering what sort of trouble i could be likely to run into as far as customs is concerned and whether its worth the risk?

Forget it, Customs will burn it , and you are likely to get a fine also with the threatened status

A little closer to home, i've also discovered a fairly large 3 foot wide by 5 foot long and 3 inch thick solid rosewood (not sure of the exact variety, its a lightish orange red colour) board/slab that's been sitting around air drying for a good 80 or 90 years for sale for about $600. Its a beautiful piece but likewise before i buy it i'd like to know what others think of it and whether it sounds like a decent deal?

Sounds more like PNG Rosewood than Aus Rosewood, and $600 sounds very expensive, unless it is the burled form.

... i've not found any that look quite so deep, dark or rich as dalbergia maritima..

Try more acacias, ringed gidgee for example

[fudo133]

There's been a bit of progress on the Maritima front, after being on hold to different government departments for the last hour and a half, it seems the internet has lied about its current status, with two delightful girls at the cites permits department telling me that from what they could see its not on the cites lists at the moment and that i do not need a permit to bring it in. I've also got a few emails from customs and the department of agriculture,fisheries and forestry saying i don't require a permit for it either, so with that in mind, i do believe its almost time to start cautiously shopping

[Berlin]

Dalbergis Maritima is listed as endangered, irrespective of what its import status is and giving any money to the people who harvest it, even indirectly, can only serve to contribute to its decline.

There are certainly timbers with fewer ethical snags that will give similar colour and characteristics.

[artme]

OK., What hapens to endangered species timbers that was harvested before the term was even heard of?

What aboout timber that is on the lsit but has come from a demolition source?

I guess you would need to have it verified/ certified in the country of origin.

Another point to consider here is the affect of placing a timber on the banned list only to have it replaced by
another timber that eventually become endangered itself Katalox is a case in point here..

[Berlin]

Yeah, there's plenty of grey area, that's for sure, but there's plenty of timber that's got a known provenance and isn't from an endangered species. I won't get high horsey about it but I think we as woodworkers need to be stewards of the resource we all love using.

[artme]

Well spoken Berlin!!

One reason I belong to The Grand Amalgamated Union of Scroungers and Recyclers is for that very reason.

I hate waste. ( One of the few things I hate ).

I think much of the desire for some timbers comes down to snobbery and tradition, without any thought given
to the truth or veracity of what people say or believe.

It's a bit like saying agate from Brazil is better than agate from Australia. Is it and why?

[CAG]

The points just raised about the purchasing/reclaiming/recycling of exotics has had me wondering for a while as well.

I have Gabon Ebony from the 60's or 70's, which I assume was before it became protected, as it was part of a truckload of furniture timber that had rolled/crashed in a nearby town. As such, there is no provenance but I wouldn't say that I was contributing to the decline of the species.

Personally and for work (high school), I buy timbers either sourced from plantations or if it is reclaimed or recycled. I try to instill this sense of ethics in my students. We just have to get used to not accessing many of the timbers previously available. I don't want to add to the destruction of orangutan habitats in Borneo.

Getting off his soapbox (made from plantation Radiata),
Craig

[artme]

Yes CAG, good on you for taking this stand!

My stash of timber is all scrounged, swapped, donated or provenance sourced.

I have had to eat humble pie over the years and bow to inevitable: Use
Pinus radiata!!

[CAG]

Or as my students pronounce it: Penis Radiata...

fudo133, have you considered NSW Scented Rosewood? I don't know if the properties are the same though (probably not.)

Craig

[fudo133]

Its not the working properties that i'm concerned with so much as its the look of it, and thus far, with the exception of the even more endangered red sandalwood/zitan, i've not found anything that's naturally quite as dark as Maritima http://www.wood-database.com/wp-cont...ose-sealed.jpg

That said, despite CITES saying it wasn't currently illegal to send it, and though they didn't mention any postage restrictions their website or in the first 10 or so emails we exchanged, the seller has now told me that they wont send it internationally so i'm back to square 1

On the plus side, i have ordered a 3 nice 6-9 inch wide dark purple/black katalox boards with virtually no sapwood on them. The only downside being that the shipping for them from the US is ridiculously expensive, at about $450 on top of the $250 for the boards grrrrrrr

I'd really appreciate any ideas for possible dalbergia maratima substitutes/really dark red/purple woods, even if they're only available in thin pieces as i was planning on using it as thicker veneers.

[dai sensei]

There is a Gidgee I have that is green when freshly cut but turns a deep dark purple and then stays that way. Sorry, forgotten the species though.

Eastern Dead Finish (Red Lancewood) can also be that beautiful deep red with purple highlights

[Runge]

Hello everyone, sorry for the slew of questions as of late, but spending a few too many hours browsing through exotic wood suppliers stocks online has gotten me rather intrigued with a handful of timbers.
I've recently come across a small stock of bois de rose/dalbergia maritima pieces for sale from a supplier in America and am very carefully considering buying it to rip into thinner pieces to use as thick veneers, however, owing to its threatened status i'm wondering what sort of trouble i could be likely to run into as far as customs is concerned and whether its worth the risk?

A little closer to home, i've also discovered a fairly large 3 foot wide by 5 foot long and 3 inch thick solid rosewood (not sure of the exact variety, its a lightish orange red colour) board/slab that's been sitting around air drying for a good 80 or 90 years for sale for about $600. Its a beautiful piece but likewise before i buy it i'd like to know what others think of it and whether it sounds like a decent deal?

Just a few random thoughts. Gilmerwood ( https://www.gilmerwood.com/ ) sells at least two of the Madagascar Dalbergia species. I believe that some of that was gotten a while ago from Madagascar and some of it came form the liquidation of Theodore Nagel in Germany. The wood you are talking about was, I think, cut along time ago. The question you should be asking yourself is whether D. maratima holds that nice color for long before it fades to brown. It WILL fade.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f14/ti...6/#post1589346

How about Peltogyne confertiflora (probably)?

ROXINHO / PURPLEHEART Rare Wood, Tropical Hardwoods, Rare Hardwoods - Brazilian Hardwoods
Big Wood Slabs, Figured Hardwoods for Countertops, Tables, Mantles and Furniture

The purple pigment in these boards are essentially the same ones in Acacia peuce, Acacia crombiei and Acacia carneorum: peltogynoids.

By the way, here's the present status of the Dalbergia's with regard to CITES ( Appendices I, II and III of CITES ).

	Appendices
I	II	III
	Dalbergia spp. #5(Populations of Madagascar)
	Dalbergia cochinchinensis#5
		Dalbergia darienensis #2 [population of Panama (Panama)]
	Dalbergia granadillo#6
Dalbergia nigra
	Dalbergia retusa#6
	Dalbergia stevensonii#6

PS - The REALLY purple Peltogyne maybe Peltogyne venosa ( http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xm...pdf?sequence=1 )