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Thread: 416 Stainless
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13th December 2012, 04:17 AM #1SENIOR MEMBER
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416 Stainless
Hi, I was thinking of making some infill planes out of 416 stainless or 440F if I can find a decent supplier so far I have had no luck. All the local suppliers here in town know nothing about either grades. I'll have to try again latter today.
But it also being me to another point about the desirable mechanical properties of the material for plane soles and bodies? What are the metrics for a good plane material? I am happy to sacrifice some properties for increased corrosion resistance as I have acid hands hence the stainless.
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13th December 2012, 05:30 AM #2GOLD MEMBER
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I can't advise whether SS would make a suitable plane sole, but re the acid hands, have you considered wearing lightweight gloves? I use these for all but the fiddliest jobs in the workshop. They are thin, don't sweat and are extremely comfortable. I got them from a mob in Melbourne for about $4 a pair.
SensiLite® 48-201
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13th December 2012, 06:43 AM #3SENIOR MEMBER
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Thanks Jack, Most of the light weight gloves I have tried never seem quite right, either they are too sweaty or too rubbery to feel what my hands are doing, I might give these ones a go. For any metal work they look good, but I would prefer to not wear glove for wood work, no good reason other than I get a lot of feed back from feel the surface on my fingers. That being said, I need to use gloves whenever I work oak otherwise both it and me go purple. :S
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13th December 2012, 07:10 AM #4Philomath in training
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For a plane body I would have said something that is not soft (won't score or wear rapidly), has some weight to it (for momentum) and is going to be dimensionally stable. That probably rules out Aluminium and most brass alloys (although the weight part could be sorted with some lead ballast). Bronze perhaps or ferrous alloys look to be the go (titanium too, but I'm told it is difficult to machine).
One of my text books suggests that for mild acid, 316 is not to bad. Perhaps as a starting point try that? Ferritic stainlesses are not too bad either (the 400 series but also things like 18-8)
Michael
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13th December 2012, 07:48 AM #5SENIOR MEMBER
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Tjanks Michael,
The reason I was thinking of 416 is that it seemed to be a good compromise on hardness (for wear resistance and when I hit the occasional nail in reclaimed timber) machinability and corrosion resistance. Aluminium bronze (same as $1-$2 coins) is a good choice as I have plenty of that around (reclaimed from submersible pump impellers) it is also warm in the hand and hard enough when heat treated although not as much as the 416 (200HB compared to 350HB).
Titanium would be a interesting choice, but I don't really know anything about the alloys, apart from that some machine just like aluminium and others are very difficult, on reflection I think titanium would be best left to the application that need high temperatures or low weight.
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13th December 2012, 08:11 AM #6
Hi Josh,
Do you have a local stainless steel manufacturing specialist? There is one here that i have bought from before, but IIRC they only has a couple of grades. Otherwise you can try AKC, Bladesteel, Blocks and Blanks for Knife Makers & Customizers although his prices are out there, and i have a personal distaste for the way he pushes damasteel.........
Otherwise you can get it from the states, i have used Admiral steel Admiral Steel - Knife & Sword Blade Steels several times to get sword steels, the postage is pricey but it still works out to half the price of AKC. They also have a good range of other carbon steels.1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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13th December 2012, 09:11 AM #7SENIOR MEMBER
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Thanks Ueee
We have plenty of stainless manufacturing and suppliers places here, but they are all food service so they never really go near the martensitic stainless. After a little digging around I can order 416 it in but it only comes as round bar. If I got a 76dia x 400 mm piece I could slice it up and get two large smoothing plane soles and two smaller block planes out of the same piece. Oh, I'm going for a thicker soles say 20-25mm.
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13th December 2012, 09:49 AM #8
cast iron ?
Could you use a suitable grade of cast iron ? It comes in different hardness grades ....Mike
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14th December 2012, 07:00 AM #9GOLD MEMBER
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22nd December 2012, 09:41 AM #10SENIOR MEMBER
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Hi guys, I took the ideas from this thread and developed them a bit further here in this thread. I mention it because the of the problem of drilling a hole co-planer with the bed of a plane with curved sides, and i thought you guys would have some good ideas well at least better than mine.
-J
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22nd December 2012, 06:36 PM #11
Hi Josh,
your design looks sweet, when can you take my order????
As for the drilling, the only thing i can think of is to set the plane up on an RT, up on it side, drill bit set to line up dead center on the RT. The plane needs to be clamped with the holes center line and central axis of the plane itself on the RT's center, then one hole can be drilled and the RT rotated 180 deg and the other hole drilled.
If the drill bit is off center to the RT any error will be multiplied by 2 though.1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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22nd December 2012, 08:43 PM #12SENIOR MEMBER
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Sorry Ueee,
That design as it is has been put in file 13, it was not comfortable to hold which I consider to be major design flaw. You could use it but not without pain and frustration. I would not want it in my toolbox let alone anyone else's. There were a lot of things going for it though in other areas and they are being put into the MK10 which I hope to be a plane that I love to have in my hands for hours at a stretch.
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23rd December 2012, 12:40 PM #13GOLD MEMBER
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Hi Josh,
The 3D works well this end.
I'm not sure I have the sizes right. You said a blade 50mm wide?
Can you get a spot drill long enough to start the second hole? I'm worried that with a drill 60mm+ long starting a hole on a non square surface wont lend itself the the accuracy you are after.
could you fit the pin first and work the other surfaces to it?
Stuart
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