Help with Stanley Bailey no 5.

[Shines]

Hello everyone.

Looking for some advice from the hand plane gurus.

I have finally decided to make the effort to get my Standley number 5 ready to actually use. I’ve done the YouTube degree thing, understanding that no plane out of the box is ready to use. So I have commenced flattening the base of the plane basically to find that it’s basically a long way from flat and frustrating the hell out of me. all of the videos basically said that if it was too far from flat that you should return it. Problem is I bought this plane new from Bunnings probably 10 years ago and never used it all that much because it was not very good and at that time I didn’t know you needed to do a bunch of work to get them ready to go.

I also understand that it doesn’t need to be perfectly flat to be usable, but while I’m making the effort to get it flat, I’ll get it as flat as I can. i’m using 120, grit, wet and dry on a flat piece of kitchen cabinet whiteboard. That’s probably the flattest thing. I have in the shop that I don’t care about getting covered in black .

I'm still able to see light under a straight edge (well, under the edge of my combo square) and before I started out, it was visibly not straight when looking down the edge by eye.

Any tips? My arms are getting sore.

image.jpg

[Mountain Ash]

One of the regular contributors here (D.W.) had a good video on the process he used. Combination of marking fluid, filing and sandpaper. I'm sure someone could share the link.

[Simplicity]

Don’t be hard on your self, the first plane always seems the hardest.
Saying that, you may be better of starting with something like this Vintage Stanley Bailey No. 5 Wood Plane Made In England Tool hand | eBay

I haven’t handled a plane from Bunny’s land , but I’m not hopeful of it being great, so that might put you behind the 8 ball already.

Also what is your piece of kitchen board attached too ?, again I think you would be better of with a piece of float glass(Not too expensive) piece of marble bench top, or even a large 600 mm flat tile(Tho I’ve never used one so can’t vouch our flat they are)
Starting with a flat surface that is well supported is going too help heaps.

Post some pics of what your using an hopefully we can Steer you in the right directions.

Cheers Matt.

[Shines]

Also what is your piece of kitchen board attached to?

Thanks for the reply. I did see in the videos about using a tile or a bit of stone benchtop but this is all I had for now. I have it sitting on my very sturdy Roubo clamped down so it doesn't move. I'm confident it's flat enough for this purpose. Pics of the setup:
image.jpg

Please excuse the orientation. Photo direct from phone.

[MartinCH]

I also quickly decided that pushing a plane back and forth on sandpaper was not for me..

I had some linear bearings - fixed plywood on top and fixed the plane with double sided tape to plywood on to side.
Bolted together some grinding drums to make a tall stack and spun the said stack with drill press . Checked it was reasonably well balance and then smoothed to a diamond grinder stone.
Check the base of the plane was parallel to the drum.

You might be able to make linear slide with track and some teflon, if a linear bearing is not handy

To grind
Pushed my planes back and forth past this grinder stack, (with the plane attached to the linear slide and the slide clamped to the bench. ) Checked the flattening progress every few minutes

Made short work of flattening the soles and they measured up pretty well despite the crudeness of the surface grinder I had knocked up..

Note there a timber block on this photo but that were that plane's was...

Good luck.

[Simplicity]

Ok that’s not so bad,
But I would try getting a longer bit of sandpaper, so you can shoot the plane, without running off the sandpaper,
I also would stick it down with some thin double sided tape.

Cheers Matt.

[MartinCH]

I did flatten a few planes - including a couple that I would not have bothered with.

Planes are sort of like rabbits.

[Shines]

This is as much progress as I could manage tonight. I’ve got rid of a lot of the original texture out of the bottom but theres still a little bit of hollowing in the middle which I need to flatten so I guess that means I have to keep going.

image.jpg image.jpg

I'll post some good pics when I'm finished.

Arms have had enough for tonight.

Cheers all.

-Scott

[D.W.]

I don't know for sure what I did in the filing video mentioned above, but for hard cases, I've found something even faster.

Take your trouble plane and mark it or lap it so you know which areas are high.

Grab yourself a mill file that is not straight, but has the regular bastage file shape - the top is a bit of a convex curve.

Take that file and lay it flat on the plane as if you want to use the middle of that convex curve.

With your off hand on the handle end, twist it up just a tiny bit so it's riding a bit on that edge, but do this starting by pushing flat and then continuing to push forward while you roll that edge up.

Notice how the edge of the file digs in and cuts cast iron off very quickly, but it's also curved, so you can be accurate with it and not file the sides of the plane off.

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This fits in the process of going back and forth to your lapping surface (assuming it's accurate) and using that surface to burnish areas and let you know where the high spots are so that you're not removing more metal.

Note also that the file cuts deep, and you may not remove all of the grooves with this method once you're only lapping, so keep them linear. I use marking fluid to make it easier to see the spots that are high - mark the sole, run the plane lightly down the lap, the areas that lose marking fluid are high. Since fluid takes a while to dry, and that's a pain, run your vac and suck the air away above the plane sole if you mark it with marking fluid - notice that the fluid dries almost immediately. I'm sure machinists must do this or something like it - it's better than blowing air at it, pushing the fluid around and blowing dust around.

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Back to whatever video I may have online. I use this filing process on big castings or castings or mild steel and then always finish with lapping. For finer work, I prefer a mill file that bends a little bit so you can leave it laying flat, but when you have a lot of work to do on a bog standard plane that you really want to get good (not necessarily aiming to beat LN's specs by a large factor), this little rolling of the mill file to cut with the aggressive edges is great. The amount of roll we're talking about here is like a max couple of degrees or less - not rolling the thing up 20 or so. You'll see what I mean. Check how much black dust of removed casting you get with a stroke and compare and you'll find what works fast. What works fast and controllable saves you from getting mental fatigue and that will mean fast and controllable mean accurate.
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[Shines]

I had some linear bearings - spun plywood on top and fixed the plane with double sided tape to plywood on to side.
Bolted together some grinding drums to make a tall stack and spun the said stack with drill press.

It took me a few puzzled mins to understand what you had built and how it would work. Thanks for the detailed explanation. I dont know if I am ready to go there just yet, but I do like the bush mechanic ingenuity you have applied to this!

I started using my little 6" DMT diamond stone to get it working a bit quicker, and it made a bunch quicker progress, but noting that it has nowhere near the surface area of the bigger sheet of paper backed by the whiteboard, I only used it to speed it along then put it back onto the sandpaper.

I will have another go tomorrow.

-Scott

[D.W.]

if anyone would like me to show what I mean by this rolling of a common file (takes away my prior video's need for a bastage file that's a little flexible, and is actually much faster cutting), let me know, and I'll find a plane casting to demonstrate on the bottom.

I never made short videos, but this one would only take a minute of video time to demonstrate.

I think if any of us tries to do heavy removal with something powered (I've used the idler on a belt sander for example), we're generally asking for trouble and creating potential extra work correcting issues we create.

[Shines]

if anyone would like me to show what I mean by this rolling of a common file (takes away my prior video's need for a bastage file that's a little flexible, and is actually much faster cutting), let me know, and I'll find a plane casting to demonstrate on the bottom.

I would be grateful for this.

[D.W.]

I'll do it sometime this evening or tomorrow

[IanW]

Man, they sure make 'em ruff nowadays, don't they!?

From your last pics, it looks like you've got that sole usable - the toe end appears to be flat back to the mouth now. A bit of concavity behind the mouth is tolerable, especially on a jack plane. Provided the frog is well-seated & ground flat & the lever cap works as it should (hopefully, they aren't as rough as the sole!), you should be able to get it to make some shavings now.

That plane would've been impossible to use as you got it - you can persuade a slightly convex sole to work, but concave won't work at all unless you are wanting a compass plane....

Cheers,

[Mountain Ash]

I never made short videos,

Anyone who has met me knows I'm good at making a short story longer.