Recommend dark finish for pine table

[Ozziespur]

Hey guys,

I have a pine table which I have sealed with garnet shellac. It has the obvious orange colour that you'd expect. I'd really like to have a dark finish and am looking for any ideas as to what I could use. I really have little idea and am open to any/all (polite ) suggestions. Looking for a rich dark brown outcome.

Many thanks in advance.

[Horsecroft88]

When you say you have a pine table, first off a number of things spring to mind. First off is it a new or old (i.e. antique) table. secondly working on the principle that perhaps it is new, what sort of pine. Do you mean Radiata pine, as so much new pine furniture is made from this stuff, or alternatively are we talking about celery, huon, oregan, kauri or even baltic. And that is just to name a number of types of pine.

My point being, if radiata, then by all means have a crack at using a darker stain to include with the shellac or alternatively give it a coating and then use whatever surface finish takes your fancy. On the other hand, if it is either one of the other pines and/or even an antique my advice for what it is worth is to continue finishing with shellac, as the more coats you apply the darker the colour will become and that might be a good alternative to trying to stain it. Besides pine normally has a yellow/orange hue to it anyway, so perhaps a little difficult to get the sort of effect you are after.

The one other consideration to bear in mind is that if radiata, it can be tricky to get an even stain/colour, if wiping, padding or brushing on. Its a problem with the grain. Hence it is why most furniture manufactures spray finish such furniture.

In terms of a darker stain, possibly a walnut or oak stain might give you the colour you are after, though best to try it out perhaps on some scrap timber to see how it goes first.

[Ozziespur]

Wow, thanks for the indepth response. It's radiata pine and just a shop made tall table for the garage. It's all about experimenting/learning so not fussed at all if it's a complete disaster. Just hoping to learn something along the way.

I did not even contemplate including stain with my shellac mix. I might mix some walnut stain with the shellac & see how it looks. If not I will try walnut on it's own. I assume the walnut would be darker than the oak stain ?

Many thanks for the heads up. If you have any more options/ideas I could try let me know.

Cheers,

Scott

[Horsecroft88]

Hi Scott, not at all a problem, by asking questions and trying out things yourself is always the best way to learn. Ok so it is radiata. That is fine and your questions make more sense now. For sure you can add stain to shellac or alternatively wipe/pad/brush it on first before continuing with shellac. However, and hence my suggestion re trying it out on some scrap timber is that the technique to get it to colour correctly can be a little tricky. As I mentioned it is a problem with the grain/porosity of radiata. I would tend to agree I am pretty sure walnut would be a little darker in colour than oak. Most harware shops that sell such stains normally have a colour chart of the various stains so that might help you in which to go with.

What I have found through experience in trying this out on radiata, let alone even new baltic is that the metho in the shellac mix will tend to result in stains lifting off the timber surface, making the appearance blotchy or at least smear/run etc. Hence you need to be little patient with it and try to work with the mix following the grain of the timber to try to get an even application. However, it can work perfectly well. I have in the past managed to match a newish radiata floor to have a similar colour/appearance to an old baltic pine floor.

In terms of getting the best effect I think what you might be after I would probably go with applying a lightish coat of the stain directly onto the timber, and thereafter use a combination of a little stain addition to the shellac mix and as suggested work it onto the timber surface by brushing or padding. By padding I mean similar to how a french polisher applies shellac. A pad is about the size of the palm of your hand and has a core (normally say cotton wool) and an outer layer of material (cotton etc) but not fibrous wrapped around it. If that makes sense. And just continue to wipe on coats of the shellac/stain mix until you are happy with the colour/shine. Using a brush might be a little more problematic in terms of getting an even appearance of colour.

You would want to be a little careful if continuing to add stain to the shellac mix as it could make the table too dark, so perhaps just keep that in mind. The last step is to cut back with 0000 grade steel wool and apply a nice wax polish and buff off.

During the process of building up the colour/shellac coating, say after around 3-4 coats you probably will need to lightly sand the table back using 400 grade paper. And thereafter apply another 2-3 coats of shellac.

The alternative if you don't want to go to the trouble of using shellac could be say to apply a coating of the stain colour of choice and thereafter coat with anything from danish oil, organoil, tung oil etc or even dare I say a poly. Not that I am personally a fan of poly. But its your project.

Hope the above helps a little and that it works out just fine.

[Ozziespur]

Hmmm plenty of food for thought there.

I'm thinking I'll apply a few coats of the darker stain (prob walnut) directly to the timber and go from there.

Thanks again for your advice, much appreciated.

[jimbur]

Good advice from Horsecroft. I've seen professionals driven to desperation by radiata so don't be too dispirited if things don't work out at first.

[GaryW_USA]

Some time ago, my grandfather switched my backside because I poured out some brown water from a bucket.
Many years later I realized what I had done. He was making stain !
Put about an inch of water in a bucket, drop in a railroad spike or soft iron and let it rust.
Shake the rust around ever so often and let the muck settle.
That brown muck is your stain, just don't be in a hurry it takes awhile to form the muck.

Best of luck
GaryW_USA

Oh yes ! apply the stain before the poly !

[Ozziespur]

Like I said Jimbur, not too fussed as it's just a piece for the garage. Will be interesting to see the results though.

Thanks for the tip GaryW but I don't think i have the time or the patience (for this project anyways) to a) find a railway spike or b) wait for the thing to rust Interesting though none-the-less.

[Ozziespur]

Many thanks to Horsecroftt88 for his informative advice (and patience). See below for finished article (apart from some wax perhaps). This was a project to experiment with free pine pallet and $5.00 worth of non structural pine and learn new skills as well as to try out a new toy (Veritas plough/plow plane). Ended up brushing on & wiping off water based cedar finish to get the dark result. The ultimate accolade is that SWMBO says "it's too nice for the garage" . But in the garage it will stay as it's now my sharpening station.

Scott's pics 055.jpgScott's pics 059.jpgScott's pics 078.jpgScott's pics 083.jpgScott's pics 091.jpgScott's pics 092.jpgScott's pics 094.jpg

[gyropilot]

As an alternative to the above suggestions

Seal your shellac with a fine coat of NC lacquer(spray), let dry for at least 30 minutes, then use a thinners based stain ("fast stain" or similar - spray) then NC lacquer again, scuff with 320 grit, and spray on a final coat of NC lacquer...

Apart from the shellac, the above are all thinners based stains and lacquer because of the fast drying time and I know they work. We have used the above method for many customers with difficult items... even if the colour matching is not very good, this method can do wonders, and even repair some customers own attempts.

Cheers

Geoff

[Horsecroft88]

Very well done, it looks to be an excellent result. Am glad to have been of some help. All the best for your "next project", as this sort of thing can become quite addictive.