Beginner's paling fence

[Sportbilly]

Hi all,

Very informative forum, I'm glad I found it!

I am hoping any of you can reall help me with some advice please:

I wish to build a 30m x 180cm paling fence, and have never attempted any work like this before.

I have a few questiions though:

1. Would you say that the phyical side of things can easily be managed by a single person but the hardest thing is getting the measurements/levels right?

2. I have read online that fence posts need to be set in concrete for 4 days. I was hoping that I can find something that would set while I held it. Any suggestions for a cheap/quick setting product?

3. Leading from above, what would you say the best concrete mix is? Is concrete really required, or would compacted soil do? (I have a clay soil)

4. I've noticed that on many paling fences, the posts have grooves in them to fit the rails. Is this neccessary, or would it be okay to nail the rails onto posts without grooves?

5. Leading on from above...if required, do fencing suppliers provide posts with these grooves already cut?

Many Thanks for any help

Sportbilly

[addo]

Dunno about "easily managed". Sure one person can do it, but not everyone's built for it! You'll be digging about 14 post holes 600 deep, for starters. For a run that long, you'll need some means to establish the same level repeatedly (the old brickies' water level may be cheap and easy).

Four days' setting! Nah. Even with regular bagmix (my preferred), they're pretty solid the next day. If you want a really rigid post setting, embedding a couple of galvanised coachscrews in each post as "barbs" will make sure the wood never leaves its concrete behind. Temporary bracing as the concrete sets, is needed.

The grooves you speak of are mortises. There are two basic types, a regular or "through mortise", and the closed-ended or "blind mortise" (used only when the end of the post is otherwise visible and expected to look nice). You can indeed get posts pre-mortised, but order the rails at the same time - then they'll make sure there's clearance enough. You'll have to supply a clear drawing with the mortise distances illustrated from the top of the post.

Generally, posts are mortised with enough slack you can wiggle the rails in there after setting them. You then "pin" the rails with a long galvanised nail or two (all fasteners being either gal or stainless). Rails are joined with a long slanted overlap (in the vertical plane) that passes through one of the mortises for support.

Some rough numbers for you to chew over in terms of DIY feasibility:

30m gives 13 bays or panels around 2300 each, or 12 around 2500. Over 2400 the timber better be pretty stable, as any warpage starts to get obvious. Total paling count if using 90mm wide, is around 325. Allow 5-10% wastage (rejects) if they're treated pine.

Post length assuming level ground 1800 plus 600 embedment, or 2400 Typical post would be 150×50.

Underside of bottom rail about 300 above ground; top of top rail about 200 below paling tips.

Holes around 600 deep by 230 square; allow three 20kg bags concrete mix per hole; maybe a little more. If using non-rapid set, mixing two bags in a "real" barrow takes a few minutes with a squaremouth shovel. Mixing three bags at once is not for beginners.

To dig the holes you can use a bolster tipped bar and post-hole shovel or one of those post hole diggers (opposing round shovels). I like a square hole as it gives good amounts of concrete all around the post.

That should get you started thinking! Don't forget to price in the tools required.

Cheers, Adam.

[Sportbilly]

Dunno about "easily managed". Sure one person can do it, but not everyone's built for it! You'll be digging about 14 post holes 600 deep, for starters. For a run that long, you'll need some means to establish the same level repeatedly (the old brickies' water level may be cheap and easy).

Four days' setting! Nah. Even with regular bagmix (my preferred), they're pretty solid the next day. If you want a really rigid post setting, embedding a couple of galvanised coachscrews in each post as "barbs" will make sure the wood never leaves its concrete behind. Temporary bracing as the concrete sets, is needed.

The grooves you speak of are mortises. There are two basic types, a regular or "through mortise", and the closed-ended or "blind mortise" (used only when the end of the post is otherwise visible and expected to look nice). You can indeed get posts pre-mortised, but order the rails at the same time - then they'll make sure there's clearance enough. You'll have to supply a clear drawing with the mortise distances illustrated from the top of the post.

Generally, posts are mortised with enough slack you can wiggle the rails in there after setting them. You then "pin" the rails with a long galvanised nail or two (all fasteners being either gal or stainless). Rails are joined with a long slanted overlap (in the vertical plane) that passes through one of the mortises for support.

Some rough numbers for you to chew over in terms of DIY feasibility:

30m gives 13 bays or panels around 2300 each, or 12 around 2500. Over 2400 the timber better be pretty stable, as any warpage starts to get obvious. Total paling count if using 90mm wide, is around 325. Allow 5-10% wastage (rejects) if they're treated pine.

Post length assuming level ground 1800 plus 600 embedment, or 2400 Typical post would be 150×50.

Underside of bottom rail about 300 above ground; top of top rail about 200 below paling tips.

Holes around 600 deep by 230 square; allow three 20kg bags concrete mix per hole; maybe a little more. If using non-rapid set, mixing two bags in a "real" barrow takes a few minutes with a squaremouth shovel. Mixing three bags at once is not for beginners.

To dig the holes you can use a bolster tipped bar and post-hole shovel or one of those post hole diggers (opposing round shovels). I like a square hole as it gives good amounts of concrete all around the post.

That should get you started thinking! Don't forget to price in the tools required.

Cheers, Adam.

Hey Adam,

Many thanks for such a detailed reply. It now seems a scary proposition. I guess I will need to find someone to do it, although it seems pretty difficult for this time of year.

[BobL]

I would recommend only attempting this if you enjoy this sort of work and have some idea about what to do.

As a reality check, get some quotes to build the fence and also work out how much the materials and a few extra tools cost. If you lack experience and tools you'll find you'll probably end up working for less than $10 an hour (make sure you factor in the time spent in running around and buying and pricing materials/tools).

Recently I built a 7 m long x 1.5 m high picket fence. I got 3 quotes from fence builders between $770 and $1100 (I'm sure they see we're in an inner city suburb and add a couple of hundred $$ of social tax!) The materials cost ~$300 and I already had all the tools needed apart from an hammer drill which I bought (Ozito - $70) to break up some concrete and drill some long holes in bricks. So my labour was effectively priced at $400. It took me about 4 days all up to, cost, collect materials (4 hours of running around looking for pickets as all the timber stores in my area had run out of the profile I wanted) pre-paint and build.

I was working for more than 8 hours a day x 4 days so >32 hours so I was working for about <$12.50 That's about what all my handiwork work costs out at in terms of labour, mainly because just about every thing I do is one of's. I really enjoy doing this sort of thing so one can think of it as a cheap form of therapy.

Cheers