Restoring a cedar chest of drawers

[rsser]

Hi folks,

I’m a part-time turner who’s strayed into the furniture finishing game with the arrival of a cedar chest of drawers, and hoping for advice from experienced finishers. The piece is really too good to do a second-rate job on. I’ve studied the bible of course but like the original it leaves some matters untouched.

I’m planning to stop and steam, fill the grain etc, and finish with the U-Beaut hard shellac.

Would a wash coat of shellac be advisable before filling the grain with Timbermate, so as to get the colours right? Or would this water-based product whiten the shellac?

Is bodying up the shellac with talc an alternative to using grain filler?

What do I do about the white stuff (is it whiting?) that remains in the pores on the mouldings after sanding? Should I continue sanding? A friend reckons that wiping it over with Baby oil before shellacking is the way to go.

There are some quite wide cracks in the sides and top. Would Timbermate work to fill these if I put some ply backing on the inside to hold it?

And finally (!), the original knobs are missing – the type with a threaded wooden shaft coming into them from the inside. Any idea whether these are available anywhere? (Yes, I know I should learn to cut threads on the lathe but there isn't time for everything } )

Looking forward to your sage advice,

Thanks,

Ern

[Rich]

Timbercon sell the timber knobs with wooden thread you are after,Carbatec may also have them.
Regards Sandman.

[Shane Watson]

Boy sounds like your getting yourself into a web of problems!

Firstly don't steam the timber unless you intend on bending it. I think you would more likly be talking about lightly wetting the surface to aid in sanding.

Secondly, if you are going to use a timber filler to fill the grain, use proper grainfiller, not putty. Theres a big cost difference too.

Yes you can add Talc to shellac to aid in grain filling (actually cedar isn't that difficult to fill in my opinion)

Usually the 'white stuff' left in the grain is dissolved with the next coat. A good dusting with compressed air is what I use but a quick wipe over with metho, turps etc (rembering what finish your using!) is another good method. But if your not sure, TEST! I wouldn't recommend using baby oil or oils on any sort.

Filling the cracks will depend on how big they are and whether they will continue moving after filling. If you don't mind them I would consider leaving them or get a pro to look at them for you.

The knobs can be bought from anywhere selling brassware or arcitecual gear. Mother of pearl is a good start.

Cheers

Shane.

[rsser]

Thanks Shane and Rich - much obliged.

Actually, by steaming I meant using an iron and damp cloth to bring up little dings.

And the white stuff is in the pores of the bare, sanded wood. Looks like some kind of grain filler used originally. It didn't show through the shellac finish as that looks like it was red tinted and rather opaque.

As for filling the pores, I've sanded the legs on the lathe, and without grain filling first put multiple coats of shellac on but the pores are still evident. Something wrong with my technique?

cheers,

Ern

[Shane Watson]

Argh, now its getting clearer

Steaming to get dents out is the way to go. If that usually dosn't work then theres probably not much more you can try. Well there is, but igniting your cedar probably isn't what you would like to do! hahah.

If that 'white stuff' dosn't dissapear when shellac is applied you may need to try and dissolve it out by using metho or turps alternativly (and I don't like suggesting this on cedar) you might have to use paint stripper. Neil might be able to point you in a better direction on this one.

As for filling the grain with shellac. It depends on a lot, yes technique is important as if you are just wiping the stuff on it really isn't being forced into the grain. And then some cedar really does have wide grain, some, tight grain so you may well need to grain fill.

If you have Neils book you should find all you need to know, if not get a copy! and no I don't get kick backs.. haha..

Cheers

Shane

[ubeaut]

The white stuff is usually plaster of Paris that was used as a grain filler it is often a light pink colour through to a bright orange after the polish has been stripped off.

It is an absolute bugger of a stuff to remove and usually won't accept colour so it can't be stained. About the only way to fully remove it is to sand the surface back until it is all gone. I have tried everything short of using acid to remove it but with no real success. (Don't try to remove it with acid) A fine wire brush was about the best but still left the surface in need of heavy sanding.

If anyone knows of a better way I would sure like to hear of it.

If you must oil first use raw linseed not baby oil (which never dries).

The quite wide cracks are better filled with the real thing (a sliver of cedar timber) trying to colour-match and hide the filler would be almost impossible. You should probably try and find out why the cracks are there in the first place and rectify that problem or they could continue to get bigger.

They are usually caused by some well meaning repair job in the past. Someone may have glued the drawer runners to the side of the cabinet instead of mounting them off the side. The top may also have been glued down rather than screwed to allow for movement.

A sealer made from 1 part shellac and 8 parts metho will be ok prior to the grain filler. If you intend to use Timbermate as the grain filler you should match the timbermate colour to the wet wood then put a little aside to dry and check the dry colour. It will most likely be much lighter than you really want and will require staining to match the cedar.

It may be easier to use something like Wattyl's wood grain filler which will be a much better match to the timber and easier to use in the long run. Make sure what ever you use as a filler is mixed to a runny slurry before applying it, and use a piece of hessian or other course cloth going across the grain of the timber to drive it deep into the pores of the wood.

If you intend to finish off with our Hard Shellac, it would be advisable to body up with regular shellac. This makes for easier repairs, if ever needed, in the future. Remember if it is damaged you may be the bunny who has to do the repairs.

Hope this helps.

Cheers - Neil

[rsser]

Thanks for your generous and detailed comments Neil.

Yes, the white stuff is proving to be hard to treat but I've experimented and had good results with a flap wheel sanding it right out of the grain on the mouldings and a random orbital sander on the flats. An abrasive-coated foam sanding block also appears to get into the grain quite well.

I'll give the sliver of timber route a try on the cracks - though it will need something more like scantlings in places!

Cheers,

Ern

[jamesy]

I know you can buy the knobs but I bought a 1/2" box tap and die kit from carba- tec to do the knobs on my ceder draws because I couldn't get the timber I wanted.
The instructions say that cutting threads work best on dense woods ( fruit wood like peach is ideal, cedar is a disaster) but I cut the pegs out of heartwood hoop pine with excellent results and using a dowl style insert in the knob a neat thread can be tapped.
The user of the dressing table is very satisfied.

[rsser]

Thanks Jamesy. Coincidentally I was looking at the very thing in their catalogue yesterday.

The Timbecon knobs just have a spigot, not a threaded bolt, so I'm still looking for a supplier since I can't justify the expense of the kit.

Cheers,

Ern

[Shane Watson]

MOTHER OF PEARL

[This message has been edited by Shane Watson (edited 24 January 2003).]

[Shane Watson]

J & A Watson Brassware

[rsser]

Bingo! Thanks Shane.

Ern

[Worgz]

I'm no chemist back I believe that Plaster of Paris is a Calcium Sulphate. If this is right, we (work) clean calcuim sulphate (disolve) by using a 40 % EDTA TETRASODIUM SALT solution. The problem being the solution is more effective when used at temperatures of 80 degs C, however we have had some good results at 40 degs. By the way this is removing Calcuim Sulphate from metal not cedar. EDTA has a high pH as well (11 - 12). I don't think it can be brought off the shelf, we purchase it from Consolidated Chemicals. Might be worth while trying!

Cheers

Ken


[This message has been edited by Worgz (edited 26 January 2003).]

[rsser]

What's other people's experience with grain filling?

How would I go wet sanding with tripoli after one or two coats of dilute shellac?

Ern