WOP finish problem

[Lyle]

I am a convert to Wipe On Poly.
I have used it successfully many times.
But this one job has me stumped.
It is a lazy suzan. Made with really old red cedar.
The problem is I am getting really fine scratches which appear after the coat of WOP.
They look like the old record tracks on the vinyl records. But very faint.

I have tried dry and wet sanding (even went down to 1200)
I have gone back to bare wood and tried again.
I have tried 0000 steel wool.
I have tried sand off the lathe.
It has been cold and wet here, would that have a end effect like this?

[Bob38S]

Not heard of this one before.

Sanding level would appear to be OK providing you worked up the grits and not jumped some.

How many coats?

Do you light/scuff sand between coats?

What are you using to apply the WOP?

Do you rub it in or wipe on a thick coat and leave it to level/dry?

Have you used this brand of WOP before or is it a home brew?

How old is the WOP?

Shaken or stirred before application?

Are the scratches circular or in lines, with or across the grain?

The answers to the above should give us some pointers.

[Lyle]

Thanks Bob.


Sanding level would appear to be OK providing you worked up the grits and not jumped some. I work through the grits but not every grit. 240, 320, 400 etc.

How many coats? I have been up to 5 coats, but have sanded back to wood again now.

Do you light/scuff sand between coats? I tried that with 0000 steel wool. Lightly to remove the scratches/marks. When 'mooning' the surface I couldn't see them after.

What are you using to apply the WOP? Just old T shirt material, it is clean and doesn't appear to leave 'dross' behind.

Do you rub it in or wipe on a thick coat and leave it to level/dry? Tried both a rub in with the grain and wipe on slowly turning the job by hand on the lathe.

Have you used this brand of WOP before or is it a home brew? Minwax, new can. Gloss.

sealed with sanding sealer, multiple coats to ensure the job is smooth.

How old is the WOP? New can, do not know how old/long on the shelf.

Shaken or stirred before application? Shaken as per directions on can.

Are the scratches circular or in lines, with or across the grain? Scratches are circular in direction of job rotation in the lathe. I have also tried sanding with the grain too.

The answers to the above should give us some pointers. I hope so, this job has become a pain.

After answering your questions I am now leaning towards the application of the WOP.

Lyle.

[Bob38S]

Hmmmm, all appears to be reasonable.

The only thing that appears to stick out is that the scratches are circular, I'm not a turner but have wondered about it in the past when I saw turners sanding on a lathe, it seems to me that as the timber turns you sand both with and across the grain, without thinking too much about I just assumed that if you went fine enough that the across the grain scratches would still be there but too fine to see.

I could be totally off base here but perhaps some of the turners can contribute further.

Just as another thought, others who have used steel wool have indicated that it can, at times cause issues with a finish as tiny bits break off and stick in the timber and rust if using water based finishes or blemishes under non water based.

[Lyle]

Thanks Bob.
I understand re the sanding on the lathe and across/with the grain effect.
I have not had any problem with steel wool.

I am going to try warming the job then a really light buff to see if that will take out scratches.

Lyle.

[Christos]

I have used the WOP on pieces off the lathe. If I get fine scratches it's normally me not sanding appropriately.

One thing I have done is when applying sanding sealer, is to check to see if any scratches, I find this a little easier to sand out the scratches at this stage.

If you are getting scratches from within the coats of WOP. It is a little bit of a guess as for me never had that occur. I generally use a small amount of WOP at a time and go over it while working in the next stroke.

[spokeshave]

I have been using the following method when i use Minwax Wipe-on-Poly.

This process has worked for me, but obviously will not be to everyones taste. I use Satin poly only as i didn't like the results I was getting with Gloss.

With the job sanded to 240, I start with a coat of sanding sealer (Feast Watson) but have had much frustration following the directions on the can with clogged sand paper. So i use a paint scraper to lightly spread it around (obviously this only works on a flat surface), leaving a thin coat to sand away. This usually requires another coat to completely fill the grain as sanding sometimes pulls out the filler if the timber has an open grain.

I then apply the first coat of WOP with a clean piece of cloth (usually t-shirt) applied with the grain. Sand with 240 again, this time with Wet & Dry sand paper (used dry). The first coat usually gets absorbed into the timber so the sanding leaves almost bare timber.

Second coat goes on and again sand with 240 W&D paper (again dry).

Third coat applied and if there is a good build of WOP I sand with 400 W&D but this time used wet. I only use it wet if I am happy that the timber is completely sealed with WOP. If not completely sealed i sand dry until it is.

Fourth coat is followed with a wet sand of 800.

I usually stop at 5 coats if I want a nice sheen, finishing with a wet sand of 1200 then break out the automotive polish to smooth it all out.If i want a gloss finish I apply up to 10 to 12 coats, sanding with 400 or 800 between coats. I apply so many coats because to get the gloss finish, I rub in an automotive cutting compound (Maguaire's Ultimate Compound) that would rub right through to bare timber with only 4 or 5 coats. I have even accidentely rubbed through after 10 coats if I get carried away. Then i give it a light coat of car polish, finishing off with a wax.

Here are some examples. NG Rosewood Mirror and Red Gum picture frame taken all the way for a gloss finish and Stringy chest of draws and Redgum wine rack stopped at 5 coats.


Again these method won't be for everyone, it's just a method that has worked for me after much trial and error. And I have never tried this on turned pieces, only frames, boxes and cabinets.

Hope this helps.

Steven.

[Lyle]

Nice work.
I think my problem is sanding, not the WOP.
I have used WOP before and as I said I am a convert.
I don't like spraying with all the associated bits and resideu, gun cleaning etc.

So anyway back on course.
I tried a hot air gun on the job last night.
Slightly warm to touch.
Then sanded to 240, sanding sealer, did three coats of sealer/sanding.
Then first coat of WOP.
Waiting for it to fully dry, but initially it looks OK. I cannot see the fine scratches I was getting before.
Maybe I have gone back so many time I have filled or sanded the scratches away?

I'll post pictures when I can.
Lyle.

[Lyle]

Well the learning continues!
The last effore failed too.
But.
I think I have found the problem - poor quality steel wool.
The OOOO steel wool was the problem.
I think it was bruising the wood. Then when the clear went on it was raising the bruise?
Anyway, I had a white sanding nylon pad.
So went back to bare wood and several coats of sanding sealer.
Tried that and will see how it goes. First coat of wop and waiting for it to dry.

[Bob38S]

Have you tried the "pot scourer" type of pads?

They come in various colours which indicate the grade. I believe that some people even use the green kitchen type, just ensure you use the ones which don't have any additives like soap etc.

The sanding type are available from the usual woodworking suspects, I recall I bought mine from Trade Tools.

How thin is your job now as you have gone back to bare wood a number of times?

[Lyle]

I had not tried the pot scourer type before. But after using this white one which is supposed to be equivalent to OOOO steel wool, I am not a convert.
I'll see this arvo when I get home to find out if my guess about bad steel wool is true or not.

This simple job has been a pain trying to finish.
But maybe I have won this time.

[Dengue]

don't keep us in suspense, how did it turn out?

[Lyle]

How is it going, slowly. one coat a day due to work.

[Lyle]

Finally got the finish to where I wanted.
In hindsight I should have let it go at - "good enough for a LazySuzane", but the devil in me made me go further.
It is a gift for a house-warming for a good friend.
So, photos.

[Bob38S]

Nice one.

Obviously, the same devil as mine visits your house .

Near enough is not always good enough, I'm sure your efforts will be appreciated.