Toilet instalation

[notrot]

Hi all,
has anyone experienced problems installing European brand toliets?
Rear inlet and back to wall, cistern sits diectly on pan, and having trouble with leaks? between the cistern and pan because it only has a small rubber "doughnut" seal and if not perfectly vertical it leaks.

Also would the fall on the bathroom floor account for top of the cistern being 20 - 25 mms away from the wall if you dont compensate for the fall?

Fall on bathroom is what I would consider normal

Regards

Paul

[Auspiciousdna]

I don’t know if I’d be saying too much if I was you, because it’s illegal to do your own plumbing!!!!!!!!!!!!!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[silentC]

Did you put a pad of concrete under it? You need to make sure the pan is level and the cistern should sit against the wall. I put one in last year and they're a bit of a pain but no real problems.

[notrot]

Auspiciousdna,

I didn't install, it, the plumber did and we are in the middle of a "discussion" about it, I was trying to get some information so that I could have a more informed discussion, because I'm not an electrician, plumber, builder tiler, carpenter engineer etc and it seems you need to be a little of all of these when your going through a major renovation otherwise you just have to believe what everyone tells you.

But thanks for your advice regarding whats legal and whats not.

Perhaps if our legislators did a little more about some bodgy "qualified" trades people, there wouldn't be such a temptation for people to do things themselves

Paul

[HavinaGo]

Hi Paul.

SilentC's comment makes sense.

Thought I write to support you in your seeking of knowledge. We need systems that encourage people to get skills rather than trying to protect people from themselves all the time. Soon we will have to be escorted accross the road by accredited road crossers!

The accepted standards for domestic plumbing, domestic wiring, framing etc should be freely available to all. NZ could teach us a thing or two me thinks.

As to slopes on floors in a bathroon ... if it is toward a drain, I'd definately agree it is to be expected and beneficial. If there is no drain ... even then I'd have to say the toilet supplier was an optimist to think the floor and wall would be at right angles (I don't think there is one right angle in my place) .. hence SilentC's suggestion makes sense.

Hopefully the Plumber will see sense and "plumb" the loo rather than just placing it. All the best getting things sorted.

[silentC]

The old 'bathtub' floor is becoming a thing of the past. These days people just throw down tiles straight onto the chipboard floor after spreading a bit of waterproofing around, so a lot of plumbers are just whacking the pan down on a bed of silicone or liquid nails and calling it a day.

That's why I asked, because if the floor slopes and the pan has been put in flat to the floor, then the cistern cannot sit plumb on the wall and flat on the pan. You need 90 degrees (give or take) between the top of the pan and the wall.

When I put ours in, I mixed up some sand and cement, put a blob on the floor, sat the pan on it and tamped it down with a spirit level sitting on the top of the pan to make sure it was level.

[Arron]

I'm not too sure what you are asking here Paul, but I'll try to help.

We have installed one of this style of toilet (back to wall, concealed inlet inside cistern, cistern screwed directly to pan). The cistern/pan joint is sealed by a small donut of rubber - and it definetly doesnt leak. The gap from the wall is 5mm at the floor, and 5mm at the top of the cistern, but about 10mm in the middle - so by the way it is made the back is not entirely flush. The floor is tiles on concrete and slopes towards a floor waste - so the pan was leveled on a pad of sand and cement. I did not want it any closer to the wall because of possible wall movement. If the toilet pan was not leveled correctly, but instead was allowed to follow the floor profile, then the gap at the top would have been about 25-30mm - I know that because the toilet sat in its new home-to-be without being plumbed or cemented in for a few weeks and I often looked at it and wondered if that 30mm gap would really be taken up when it was finally installed.

I've looked at a few friend's rennos in recent years and where they have this type of toilet they are all pretty poorly done. Usually there is a gap of about 25mm between toilet and wall, which to my mind looks sloppy and completely negates the value of having a 'back to wall' model. I think this is because installing this type of toilet is more difficult then older styles - the builder, tiler and plumber dont just have to co-ordinate to get the offset of the waste from the wall right, they also have to get the height of the inlet right so it penetrates the cistern at the right point - while all the time not knowing exactly how thick the tile base, adhesive bed and tiles will be. Also, getting toilet pan level on a sloping floor takes time and effort - nothing difficult about it - but it needs a little care.

It sounds like you are getting information in anticipation of a dispute with your plumber. To me it is quite clear - a back-to-wall toilet suite should be just that - back to wall - 5mm gap maximum. If the floor slopes - it doesnt matter - a competent plumber should know that floors slope and how to compensate for it.

cheers.

[notrot]

Thanks to all your replies,
Here's the current situation, The Plumber it seems had never intsalled this type of toilet, I don't know how this occured as they have been around for some time.
The were two issues, 1 the gap and 2 it was leaking.
After a discussion, the manufacturer sent out one of their service plumbers and it was agreed leak, that it was a joint error, the manufacuter had not tightened the nuts in the cisterna dn tha plumber had not checked them.
The "manufacturers plumber then wedged the pan up so that it sits flush to the wall and put some silicon around the base.
All is well ------ NO.
its been 4 days and guess what, it leaks again. GROAN and MOAN
Call to the manufacturer in the morning.

I also agree that we need to have as much information as possible when enbarking on any major renovations.
The builder keps telling us a nukber of times that we couldn't have the vanity in this spot or that etc and only when pressed was a solution found.
Sure I understand that no one wants to make work for themselves but often its not a big deal to find a solution.

Thanks to all.

Paul

[maglite]

Sorry to hear about the dramas, its not much fun.

When we did the toilet section of our reno, we toyed with the idea of getting a fancy job to park the a$$$, everything hidden etc
I spoke to a plumber mate of mine who advised that they are great if installed properly and everything lasts a while BUT when things go bad.....they go bad...big time.

We ended getting elcheapo caromas on the back of his advice.

Steve

[spartan]

We recently had a Caroma, Opal 2000 installed, it is close coupled and I was intending to do a lot of the rough in myself and get the plumber to do the last bits.


One look at the instruction made me quickly decide otherwise. Firstly the close coupled bit ment that the water inlet had to be moved. The fun then started....4.5 hours later he finally finished. So it cost me $350 to get the toilet installed. A lot more than I thought it would.

It seems to be ok - it works and looks great. Interesting though is that he said he called installed 2-3 normal tiolets in the time he took to do this one.

He also had problems with the size of his hands, getting then inside the cistern to tighten various things....