Black stain query

[AlexS]

I'm trying to obtain a black or almost black brown finish on kauri, using U-beaut water based dyes. I can get the black using spirit-based stain, but I generally prefer the appearance of water-based finishes.
However, the green-black, when it dries, turns green on kauri, and with bit of red in it, becomes more purplish brown. I can get a suitable brown with a little yellow as well, but I'd like to get a real black.
I understand that different timbers will react differently to different timbers, and kauri isn't, perhaps, the best to be dying, but does anyone have any tips for getting a good black.

PS. I have some liquid nightmare brewing on the shelf, so that may be the answer.

[mic-d]

HI Alex, How about water soluble nigrosine? I have had the same problem with any water-based dye colours that are mixtures of the single component colours. The dyes chromatograph through the timber and separate into the base dyes (or partially separate). So when you say it turns green what is happening is the green component dye is retained closer to the surface (binds more tightly to the timber) while the other components move further into the timber. I don't see how it is possible to overcome this problem with multi-component dyes. (wet some kitchen paper and drop on a spot of dye and you will see the effect more pronounced). Prooftint black is quite a nice black and is compatible with water-based finishes

[AlexS]

Thanks Mic, nigrosine looks like it might be the go. I'll get some to try. I've used proof tint, which gives a good black, but hides everything underneath it, and I'll be using shellac over it. I'll try the nigrosine. Thanks for that.

[dr4g0nfly]

I would have recommended the 'Liquid Nightmare' depending upon the 'tannic' level of the timber. I works best on high tannin woods.

[Humphrey9999]

If you can get hold of some tannic acid, you can darken almost any timber with iron/vinegar by pre-treating with tannic acid.

[Lplates]

I'm trying to obtain a black or almost black brown finish on kauri, using U-beaut water based dyes. I can get the black using spirit-based stain, but I generally prefer the appearance of water-based finishes.

Hi Alex,

I have used the Feast&Watson brand black stain that Bunnings sell, it is spirit based but in terms of stains it is the best i have used. I've also tried water based mahoganies and green spirit stains also. My father built me a bed from generic (messmate?) hardwood that was finished it in. We applied two coats of the stain and it created a great even finish. We just wiped it on with a sock, let it sit for 5min and then wiped off with a rag. We then finished it using Cabots Danish Oil which was applied in a similar fashion and the result was a beautiful satin black finish with the wood grain being slightly glossier so it stands out nicely.

I'm really fond of the finish and the great thing was that the danish oil didn't lift it when it was applied, unlike some of the red mahogany colour i used on another project which was water based. I would suggest getting your hands on a small sample pot (50ml) that is also sold at bunnings and testing it out on small offcut, you won't be disappointed.

Cheers
Mat

[dr4g0nfly]

I've been thinking about this as something was niggling at the back of my mind.

I got it today, I saw someone use black shoe dye and achieved a fantastic black finish.

Trouble is it only comes in small pots unless you know a cobbler who can get some in quantity.

[ubeaut]

Condy's crystals (Potassium permanganate) dissolves in water makes an intensely purple solution. When wiped on pine it will go an amazing purple colour then will oxidise to give a very intense, very deep, dark brown. If not dark enough a wipe of almost any black dye over this should do the job

Condy's crystals is strong oxidising agent and a chemical dye, you need to wear gloves when using it and keep it away from metal. Kauri and other pine was often chemically dyed with condy's crystals which gives a very deep walnut brown colour to the timber without any loss of figuring or grain features and was used on such things as gramophone cabinets similar to the one below:


gramophone.jpg
This pic is just an example of colour....
No idea if it was done with condy's crystals or not.

Cheers - Neil

[Humphrey9999]

Condy's crystals (Potassium permanganate) dissolves in water makes an intensely purple solution. When wiped on pine it will go an amazing purple colour then will oxidise to give a very intense, very deep, dark brown. If not dark enough a wipe of almost any black dye over this should do the job

Condy's crystals is strong oxidising agent and a chemical dye, you need to wear gloves when using it and keep it away from metal. Kauri and other pine was often chemically dyed with condy's crystals which gives a very deep walnut brown colour to the timber without any loss of figuring or grain features and was used on such things as gramophone cabinets similar to the one below:

This pic is just an example of colour....
No idea if it was done with condy's crystals or not.

Cheers - Neil

Great info, Neil.
One question, though. Roughly what sort of concentration would you recommend? ie grams per litre.
The chemist only has very small bottles, so I was wondering how many to buy for a trial.

A bit of reading tells me to keep potassium permanganate well away from glycerine, too, or fire will result.

[Dengue]

Hi AlexS, how did you get on with the nigrosine? Any luck?