Finishes over Organoil

[markharrison]

I've been doing further experiments with finishes (shellac, lacquer, poly) over Organoil as I'm not fully happy with the finish on Red Gum. The colour is great though. I've been through the process up to 1200 grit with power sanding so it's not for want of trying.

I was reading about EEE-ultra shine here and it sounds interesting. Anyone here tried this over Organoil? On Red Gum?

BTW, lacquer just flaked off on top of the burnished Organoil surface. It otherwise looked okay

[Richardwoodhead]

Mark, i had the same bad experience with organoil over Marri and Jarrah. I think you now either have to sand right back (and start again) / or go with an oil-polyurethane mix over the organoil. Like danish oil (which will give the timber a low satin sheen) or maybe a mix with more poly (Floorseal) - which will bring out the grain and give a nice satin sheen. Havn't tried EEE over organoil. Good luck with it.

Richard

[PAH1]

EEE over organoil works fine, I have used organoil on jarrah and have been really happy with the result. The question is what exactly is it that you do not like about the end finish and what you want to achieve? An answer to that would make it easier to give a recomendation.

[LineLefty]

I've used organoil over jarrah and redgum before and not had a problem. You do need to apply it lightly and evenly otherwise you'll get dark splotches.

Maybe use a carnauba containing wax over it?

[markharrison]

To the question to what I don't like; the colour is beautiful and rich but there is no depth to the finish. Perhaps LineLefty is correct and all that is missing is a carnauba wax over the top.

So in short, there is no problem but I would like to get a bit more depth to the finish.

Maybe I will send Neill an e-mail directly and see what he says, unless he wants to pipe in here.

[Richardwoodhead]

Mark, by that do you mean clarity of woodgrain?

My problem was "flatness". It looked great just after appilication, but was dead the next day. I later learned that the "secret" is you have to REALLY (I mean REALLY) work the organoil, by wet sanding the oil with 600 wet & dry. And over many days and many applications. A local "big name" furniture guy tried to go "organic" and switched from lacquer to organoil. But even with all the work, he couldn't get the satin finish he was chasing. He ended up going to a Danish. Another friend uses organoil for breadboards. He's shown me how he gets his semi-satin finish on these relatively small surfaces. He uses an angle grinder sanding / buffing technique. Works up a sweat in the process. Lots of work over many days for a breadboard surface. (Meanwhile, I'm imagining trying to adapt his technique to a conference table of large TV / Stereo sideboard.)

Organoil obviously works for some. I'd be interested to hear what kind of grain clarity / sheen they achieve, on what type of furniture, and how they manage it.

Regards,

Richard

[markharrison]

Richard,

The sheen definitely drops after a day or two. That is no doubt part of the problem.

I wet power sanded with a ROS up to 1200. Organoil specifically advise against using too many applications of oil so maybe your contacts know something the manufacturer doesn't. Sure wouldn't be the first time in any industry you could name.

The wood is burnished smooth and the grain is almost completely filled. I don't know what good would come from applying more to be honest which is why I was looking for additional topping finishes. Wax will come but I'm not 100% convinced it is the solution.

[Richardwoodhead]

Mark, organoil also sell a "Woodsheen" product which goes on last. Might help?

Also, I'm not sure about the continual application of organoil after the first couple of coats. Reading your post jogged my memory that after the first one (or two) coats had penetrated and dried, that I think no further organoil was applied. My mistake. (We need an organoil expert in here!)

Good luck,

Richard

[PAH1]

I do not claim to be an expert but here is my technique which is modified from the instructions. I have had good experience with depth, clarity and shine, but it is timber dependent and some timbers simply look muddy.

Sand to 600, then apply a liberal coat, wait as long as you can then start sanding with 800 till it dries the oil out. Quickly wipe off the sludge, then apply another, thinner,coat wait as long as you can and then start with 1200 till it dries out the oil. Sand again with 1500 without adding oil, then go to 2000. With the 2000, I generally sand a couple of times, the initially wet and later dry and sometimes a few more. After all this is done I give it a good buff. It is better is the final dry sanding with 2000 grit is done say a week after the first as that will let any stray grain come up and you can then get into it and smooth it down. I wish I could post some pics of the finished product but they are all overseas given as presents to family. I made a jewellery box in scarlet striped camphor laurel and did the organoil finish and that was gorgeous, ditto for the silky oak (G. robusta) and jarrah one.

I finished a hoop pine blanket box top in the same thing and it lacked a bit, traditional wax over the top brought it to life.

[markharrison]

Okay Pah,

It looks like the wax is it. I will get the Ubeaut wax and try on a test piece. The Organoil wax is too soft for this purpose, IMO.

[OBBob]

Long time ago I know ... but what was the outcome of the wax Mark?

[markharrison]

Well in the end I did use EEE and I am happy with the outcome overall.

If I had to do this again I would use super blonde shellac as another piece I did with just shellac on Red Gum was magnificent. I just brushed it on and sanded back (at least seven coats) until I was satisified.

[OBBob]

Thanks, mine is food service so Shellac would be no good ... plus the organoil is on. I have followed the instructions and put a couple of coats of the organoil and gotten to an OK matt finish with sanding to 1200 grit, do you should think I should keep sanding just with oil on the paper and maybe finer paper ... or just go on to teh EEE?

[rsser]

... which Organoil? There are several.

I was taught to finish with the burnishing oil, let sit for several weeks, knock back the raised grain, then finish with a thin coat of two of wax. Buff wax with lambswool bonnet.

.... too much work. Now I just use Rustins DO as per instructions and buff with rag or swansdown mop once dry for a higher gloss, OR (and never tried this) wet sand as per the above with the Rustins.

Now have a can of Organoil DO which got a good wrap in a recent AWR ... haven't tested it yet though.

[OBBob]

Yes its the burnishing oil. So, I was looking for something to go over that coating to give it a glossier finish. I was thinking something like the Traditional Wax from U-Beat or trying to rub back with EEE?