Current world events, can we have an open discussion?

[rwbuild]

Time and tide wait for no man.
How many times and how much time has this subject been debated over the centuries and we are still no closer to the answer, but there is no doubt that it will continue for time immortal.
The concept of time was created out of observations of nature and the universe, secondary to that, time was then used to manage activities to enable an ordered life via routine and to study actions and predict/manage/achieve results.
Time is relative, a fly lives a lifetime of approx 15 to 30 days, human life average approx 75 years, earth's axial rotation 24hrs, Jupiter's rotation 9.9hrs, an un watched kettle boils quickly, a watched kettle appears to take a long time. How much time do we take helping and caring for others?
Where is the depot that all wasted time is stockpiled and where is the safe where all the saved time is stored?
There are 3 states of time, resting, constructive, destructive, you have a choice of 2, its up to you which ones you choose.

[cava]

If this is true, there is going to be a lot of arrests in the USA related to corruption and paedophilia at a very high level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-aKnbjvlJE

[cava]

Just to prod this thread further.

With the recent warmish weather that we are having in Victoria, my mind was cast back to when I was younger growing up in Sydney.

I am sure that some of you would be aware of the Mandela Effect on all sorts of diverse subjects, and it got me wondering regarding the claimed warming of the planet.

I can remember in the early to late 1960’s, that the weather was so hot that pavements were buckling in suburbs. This in actual fact happened directly outside our own family home 2-3 times on different years. What I remember was that the buckled concrete pavement was originally laid on a base of coal, which would probably date it to sometime earlier than the 1930's (just guessing). It was a heritage suburb and we could see the top of the Sydney Harbour Bridge from our front door. This was repaired by the local council by removing and re-concreting the particular area of pavement.

On another occasion a friend and myself were messing around with a thermometer to check the temperature (as boys do) and it was 105-106⁰F. Consequently, with my parents permission after they checked the reading, we rang the Sydney newspapers to report the high temperature and hopefully garner a reward for such a newsworthy item as was encouraged back then.

To cut a long story short, yesterday I checked all the temperatures for the Sydney locale and neighbouring areas for the 1960’s decade, and nothing suitable was recorded showing the number of high(er) temperatures that I recall.

With this in mind, my gut feeling, is that the figures have been altered lower to justify todays claimed higher figures – after all statistics do not lie (sarc).

Just my $0.02 worth.

[woodPixel]

QFbVEprlxohGvi3gb9kJsbCjTUDei5HxUulYZYM3jPw.jpg

[damian]

Well.. I got into these arguments years ago. Now I'm just too tired.

I remember in school in the 70's the mercury kissing 50 and us all speculating if it went over we might get sent home (hoorah). See if you can find a record of 49C now...

And if you believe in conspiracies I asked for the ipswich temp data years ago from the BOM. It would cost me $40 which was fine but they would only supply back to the 40's. I know for a fact the ipswich weather station has been there since the 1800's. Explanation requested and not given.

Perhaps we should not wonder if we are being lied to, but rather are we ever given any truth at all ?

Woodpixel: Great graphic, but the thing that scares me much more than that is research that indicates that if you show people facts that contradict their beliefs they are MORE LIKELY TO CLING TO THEIR EXISTING BELIEFS. Terrifying...

[elanjacobs]

Maybe your thermometer was wrong. Also, temperatures are recorded in the shade, if you were in the sun you'd get a higher reading. If your thermometer was mounted to a wall it may have been affected by radiating heat.

The thing with conspiracies is that the bigger they are, the more people who are required to keep their mouths shut about it. For your gut feeling to be correct, it would require a worldwide effort of tens if not hundreds of thousands of people all changing records across the planet. Does that really sound like the kind of thing that would happen and NO ONE would let something slip?

[taz01]

Just to prod this thread further.

With the recent warmish weather that we are having in Victoria, my mind was cast back to when I was younger growing up in Sydney.

I am sure that some of you would be aware of the Mandela Effect on all sorts of diverse subjects, and it got me wondering regarding the claimed warming of the planet.

I can remember in the early to late 1960’s, that the weather was so hot that pavements were buckling in suburbs. This in actual fact happened directly outside our own family home 2-3 times on different years. What I remember was that the buckled concrete pavement was originally laid on a base of coal, which would probably date it to sometime earlier than the 1930's (just guessing). It was a heritage suburb and we could see the top of the Sydney Harbour Bridge from our front door. This was repaired by the local council by removing and re-concreting the particular area of pavement.

On another occasion a friend and myself were messing around with a thermometer to check the temperature (as boys do) and it was 105-106⁰F. Consequently, with my parents permission after they checked the reading, we rang the Sydney newspapers to report the high temperature and hopefully garner a reward for such a newsworthy item as was encouraged back then.

To cut a long story short, yesterday I checked all the temperatures for the Sydney locale and neighbouring areas for the 1960’s decade, and nothing suitable was recorded showing the number of high(er) temperatures that I recall.

With this in mind, my gut feeling, is that the figures have been altered lower to justify todays claimed higher figures – after all statistics do not lie (sarc).

Just my $0.02 worth.

One of the effects of global warming is greater weather instability. I think the effect of this has become more and more evident over the last few years, at least ion my opinion.

A great book to read on this topic is "merchants of doubt".

Regards,

Adam

[woodPixel]

Cava, I see your point. My father speaks the same. I'm a half-Sydney boy and grew up in Mosman and Waverton.

Global weather change is real. Its a fact. Global "warming" is a distraction as everyone immediately jumps to the "it's no hotter here" argument (well, it IS).

I'm utterly privileged to have a few friends who are super hard-core scientists. They share papers and articles with me. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE for the facts and science to be fabricated. If it is/has, another study or scientist would publish alternatively and it would be repudiated. Patentently false data or lies are discovered almost instantly. This is how science works.

I respect your opinion. I'm not doubting your intellect in any way and truly believe that it is worth having a devil's advocate or alternative thinker present. There are a lot of media people who publicly write extensively to deliberately fog the arguments and deliberately misconstrue the truth (for what benefit ... Quo Bono?).

My opinion, however, is the opposite (!!!!). I am now of the careful and considered opinion that we have created an end-game for ourselves as a species. An unstoppable, catastrophic, global, world-changing set of events that will very rapidly lead to alarming, cascading collapses of entire ecosystems that will change this planet utterly within our lifetimes.

I have read deeply deeply DEEPLY concerning articles on methane (clathrate) bubbling (Siberia and arctic), Ocean acidification due to CO2, monster die offs of Plankton due to heat/acidification, fish stock COLLAPSE, de-glaciation EVERYWHERE, reduced snowfalls EVERYWHERE, extreme hot/cold EVERYWHERE (India!!!!), more fires, more cyclones, more rain, COLLAPSE of low-ground wind (it's very weird) and 1000 other massive disturbances... STARVATION on massive scales.

It is my belief/opinion that we have created an unstoppable set of changes that will lead us..... where???..... utter calamity as a species.

To top this off there was a scientific paper last week I read on essentially How To Reverse this... we cannot. It's too late. No amount of zero emissions, tree planting, fertiliser run-off stopping and oceanic dead-spot remediation can halt it. I'll see if I can find it in my browser history and post it here.

[damian]

Maybe your thermometer was wrong. Also, temperatures are recorded in the shade, if you were in the sun you'd get a higher reading. If your thermometer was mounted to a wall it may have been affected by radiating heat.

The weather station at the school was a proper one in a box at the appropriate height, but that doesn't mean it was accurate.

Quote:

One of the effects of global warming is greater weather instability. I think the effect of this has become more and more evident over the last few years, at least ion my opinion.

A great book to read on this topic is "merchants of doubt".

Regards,

Adam

I spent thousands of hours reading papers on GW years ago, and I do mean thousands. The big problem is data. The mercury in glass thermometer was only invented 400 years ago and has been widely used for a couple of centuries. Also people don't cope well with long term trends. The 20th century was abnormally calm as far as volcanoes and earthquakes are concerned, so a return to trend looks like catastrophe. We know the sun has cycles but very little good data is available about the longer term ones (or so I'm told by people who actually know something about solar physics). Likewise weather trends. We know it's been hotter than this in the distant past we know CO2 has been higher. We just don't know how "normal" it is.

On the other hand the politics are clear and scary.

Environmental organisations cultivate fear in order to spur us to donate. In the 90's a few capitalists saw an opportunity to profit from this fear and invested in speculative "green energy" companies. They then sent out mouth pieces to spruik the catastrophe line. For the first time we had the extreme left and extreme right preaching from the same hymnbook. It wasn't until people twigged to what it would cost them personally that they backed up and rejected the case.

We also know it's a scam because they refuse to call it by it's name, air pollution. No one denies air pollution exists, but you can't terrify people into backing expensive hair brained schemes unless you give it a scary spin.

The question I ask is not weather GW or CC is real. Rather what will the actual consequences be, what can we do about it and what will it cost ?

And here is something to really scare you. I am reliably informed that on average about every 14000 years we get a "mini ice age". We haven't had one for 17000 years. What if recent warming is a precursor to a substantial DROP in temperatures ? What if this is along term solar cycle ? If temps DROPPED 4C we would be in a mighty bucket of trouble.

There you go, wild speculation or maybe I'm part of a conspiracy.

[Sturdee]

The thing with conspiracies is that the bigger they are, the more people who are required to keep their mouths shut about it. ............... Does that really sound like the kind of thing that would happen and NO ONE would let something slip?

Yes, just reflect on what happened in Nazi Germany with Dr Goebbels as the chief mouth piece.

[elanjacobs]

Yes, just reflect on what happened in Nazi Germany with Dr Goebbels as the chief mouth piece.

I did quite specifically say worldwide.

[woodPixel]

Environmental organisations cultivate fear in order to spur us to donate. In the 90's a few capitalists saw an opportunity to profit from this fear and invested in speculative "green energy" companies.

Reminds me of this
blowinginthewind_eng.jpg

[woodPixel]

climate_cartoon-better-res.jpg

[cava]

Cava, I see your point. My father speaks the same.

Maybe your Father, with his years of experience and wisdom is right.

[Lappa]

I quite liked the read “State of Fear” by Michael Crichton.

I was actually reading this when the Aceh tsunami occurred.