The carbon tax is wonderful

[damian]

Until recently gas was a waste product because we had no way of shipping it offshore. When you bought it you were basically paying for the infrastructure/delivery not the gas.

Now we have gas terminals and ships to cart it and the price overseas has gone up we're being sucked in to world parity pricing again (we know from experience how that ends).

The seam gas in mines isn't straightforward to capture. You either extract it after it's diluted with air or you interfere with the main game, shearing off coal to sell. Gas has a value but it's not that high yet. At some point it might become economic, but I don't think we're there yet.

I have never worked for a mining company, I worked in research and testing for the coal industry for some years. I am not in any way beholding to them, and it would never shift my opinion on anything. I will say I won't identify my current employer. They are imbeciles, but they are vindictive vengeful imbiciles, and I'm not quite ready yet to get sacked from this circus. I would never defend them though I just don't like some of the misinformation spread in propoganda so I perk up on coal to set the record straight from time to time. I'm equally ready the point out their sins, like f'ng coal seam gas mining....

Hope that clears it up.

[Ken-67]

Point 1. most Australian, when talking about Gillard, or even thinking about her, start to get steamed up and irate.
Point 2. when a person gets irate, they breath faster and heavier, thus expelling more carbon dioxide.
Solution. Get rid of Julia Gillard, and we will immediately reduce carbon (dioxide) emissions by half.

[Greg Ward]

I think she is wonderful.
She has given all Australians a common purpose and has helped bind us together in the same way the NSW Labor party assisted all in NSW to think as one.
Greg

[Wood en I]

Point 1. most Australian, when talking about Gillard, or even thinking about her, start to get steamed up and irate.
Point 2. when a person gets irate, they breath faster and heavier, thus expelling more carbon dioxide.
Solution. Get rid of Julia Gillard, and we will immediately reduce carbon (dioxide) emissions by half.

What he said.

[kraits]

if there are genuine conserns about carbon emisions why are we utilising uranium in this country?
here's an idea, lets stop importing products from the real polluters and make the products here but, in a greener fashion.think about it, more jobs for australians, more tax dollars for gillard without the introduction of a carbon tax, we all win.

[ColW]

here's an idea, lets stop importing products from the real polluters and make the products here

We will never see a labor government install such a level of protectionism, it would
likely send wages and conditions crashing, and send us on a collision course with
all sorts of free trade agreements, but individually we can make those choices.

[artme]

Have to agree with you Col, particularly since we seem to be the only donkeys playing on th very small level part of the level playing field!

We have heard many arguments for "green energy", one of them being job creation. I would like to see this particular argument proved.

I think a good argument for a carbon tax is that it is intended to reduce our reliance on transportable fossil fuels.To me this is no bad thing. I Would like to see extra levies on petrol and diesel. This would force people to be more circumspect about their fuel consumption and eventuall force people into purchasing more fuel efficient vehicles or, better still shift more people to use public transport.

Of course this would require a rethink on public transport services and the fares charged. Perhaps, to begin with, the providers of public transport could be given tax relief on fuel and vehicle purchases whil extra taxes or fees are charged for owners of prvate vehicles .


OK fellas, the scrum has been fed!!

[Bob38S]

Have to agree with you Col, particularly since we seem to be the only donkeys playing on th very small level part of the level playing field!

We have heard many arguments for "green energy", one of them being job creation. I would like to see this particular argument proved.

I think a good argument for a carbon tax is that it is intended to reduce our reliance on transportable fossil fuels.To me this is no bad thing. I Would like to see extra levies on petrol and diesel. This would force people to be more circumspect about their fuel consumption and eventuall force people into purchasing more fuel efficient vehicles or, better still shift more people to use public transport.

Of course this would require a rethink on public transport services and the fares charged. Perhaps, to begin with, the providers of public transport could be given tax relief on fuel and vehicle purchases whil extra taxes or fees are charged for owners of prvate vehicles .


OK fellas, the scrum has been fed!!

Hang on a minute - not all of us live in the big smoke.

Public transport = very limited in area, frequency and basically only daylight hours.
Rail = miles away
Fares - don't even start - try getting a flight from a regional centre which is only served by one outfit - it is cheaper to fly Brisbane to Adelaide than Hervey Bay to Brisbane.

I could go on but you get the idea.

[woodbe]

Hang on a minute - not all of us live in the big smoke.

Public transport = very limited in area, frequency and basically only daylight hours.
Rail = miles away
Fares - don't even start - try getting a flight from a regional centre which is only served by one outfit - it is cheaper to fly Brisbane to Adelaide than Hervey Bay to Brisbane.

I could go on but you get the idea.

I get where you're heading, but I don't think you get the idea.

For public transport to work, it has to solve the issues you raise. You're right to claim it doesn't currently do that for any of us, but if it did we would be a lot less reliant on our private transportation. The reason it doesn't do it now, is that Australia has under invested in this sort of infrastructure for many decades.

Public transport works well when it's done right. We don't have much of that in Australia, but there is some light at the end of some very long and dark tunnels. I would suggest the TransPerth N/S rail link as one example of good planning and execution.

Visit almost any city in Europe to have your eyes opened.

woodbe.

[damian]

I live 10 hilly kms from the nearest bus stop.

The trouble with deploying PT in Australia is that outside the cities our population is so thinly spread it's unviable. There is no comparible place on earth that has made public transport work. The numbers just won't fly.

The free trade thing is funny. The boarders were mostly opened by Hawke, our "great reformer". Most of our manufacturing closed during his rein, instead of collecting tarriffs we now subsidise the auto industry to a ridiculous extent, real wages dropped, unions became bigger and less relevant to the membership (and more overtly corrupt), the "entrepeneurs" made a lot of money, poverty doubled between 84 and 94, and for their final act the recession we had to have sent many people out of their homes and bankrupt.

But Labour is a socialist party representing the working class...isn't it ?

[woodbe]

I live 10 hilly kms from the nearest bus stop.

The trouble with deploying PT in Australia is that outside the cities our population is so thinly spread it's unviable. There is no comparible place on earth that has made public transport work. The numbers just won't fly.

There are plenty of examples of cities around the world with populations like ours that enjoy really good public transport.

I agree that it isn't easy to provide good PT to rural areas, but that doesn't mean we should do nothing of any consequence in both the cities (where most of the daily trips are undertaken anyway) and the rural areas.

Basically, if you have a crappy system, it won't get enough use to justify maintaining and extending it. That's why our system is a shambles. The potential customers tend to invest in private transport instead. It would now take a long time and a lot of public funds to build a system that would attract people back from private transport.

woodbe.

[damian]

yes but hammering fuel prices or regos penalises people in rural areas while offering them no viable alternative. That's the point Bob and I are trying to make.

If we were really serious about this the government would move ALL non geographically sensitive government positions out of ALL cities. The funny thing is it'd be revenue positive as office and facility rents are lower away from CBD's. People would still have to commute but the distances may be short and the absence of traffic would mean fuel consumption would decrease, not to mention the benifits to cost of living and quality of life for everyone.

[Bushmiller]

Public transport appears to be poor in major population centres. If you travel away from those centres it is no longer poor, it is either non-existant or close to non-existant.

By all means offer fuel incentives to public transport companies, but why penalise the population who live in country areas? That part of the population already pays more for most products around. Do they need a further imposition?

The nearest major centre to me (where there is some modest public transport) is 80km away. I am fortunate in that I don't have worry too much about travelling in, although my nature is such that I limit my travel and save up the reasons to travel that distance.

However, there would be many people in my region who just would not be able make the trip.

We seem to be locked into penalties as opposed to incentives.

I was once told, a long time ago, that Australia was a lucky country because everybody (a slight exaggeration) owned a car. The person imparting this knowledge smiled and said, "Actually, if you want to go anywhere, you have to own a car!"

Regards
Paul

[woodbe]

yes but hammering fuel prices or regos penalises people in rural areas while offering them no viable alternative. That's the point Bob and I are trying to make.

Oh. So sorry. I thought you were trying to say that good public transport is not possible in this country. Thanks for clearing that up.

feel free to carry on!

woodbe.

[kraits]

why can't anyone see that it's not about saving the environment, it's all about revenue raising, tax's, another tax, big deal, call it carbon tax or what you will, they are going to tax us on things your grandfather wouldn't and couldn't have thought of.

why do we accept it? imagine if they tried this in italy or Sth korea or some other country where there not afraid to start a riot and burn things when the government tries to exploit them. she'll be right mate, sure, no worries. cost of power going up, fuel going up, even trying to put water meters on farmers dams here in s.a, one day dont be suprised if we let it go your going to be wearing a metre on your face and been charge for the air you breath.

carbon tax is for mugs that beleive the governments propaganda and lies.this isn't what our forefather fought for in the great wars, this is criminal and its been sold to us by a facsist government and were letting it happen.