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Results 106 to 120 of 192
Thread: Primary Response
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23rd December 2012, 02:20 PM #106
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Hi John,
There's a really good article from a bloke that has spent many years as both a competitive shooter and store owner might be worth reading
An opinion on gun control « Monster Hunter Nation
It's quite a balanced perspective that touches on many of the different aspects of this hotly debated issue.
He does make some interesting points though
Cheers,
Gordon
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23rd December 2012, 02:37 PM #107
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I wish I had an answer to the whole dilemma, but I don't.
I just don't see implementing bans as being an effective measure. Look at our current firearms laws here. Exceptionally strict, yet criminals still commit crimes with firearms.
Even if Obama issued an executive order repealing the 2nd Amendment, I doubt many of their citizens would follow it. The reasoning behind their constitution was to allow the people to have some means of protection from their own govt - when I spent time there most of the people I met felt strongly about the constitution - forcing it to be changed would cause a lot of unrest I think.
The person/s that can come up with an effective and viable solution should be in line for a Nobel Prize. Preventing bad people from doing bad things would certainly be the ideal... but how to achieve that?
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23rd December 2012, 02:44 PM #108
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23rd December 2012, 02:54 PM #109
Skwair2rownd
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On the subject of gun owners who are nuts I think many of the massacres were planned by the perpetrators for some time before they were carried out.
Clearly then, theses gun owners had substantial psychological problems. Escaping assessment for these problems is either easy or no assessment exists and therein lies a massive problem for lawmakers in any country, not just the USA.
Now, what needs also to be considered is the case of access to weapons by those who are considered stable and reasonable. What happens if they for some reason snap and use a gun to vent their anger?
I saw an example of this many years ago. A young fellow snapped and said, Ïf I had a gun I would shoot everyone here"! I have no doubt he would have! We were all thankful that he didn't have access to a weapon.This reaction came from an intelligent and stable young man.
The ability for ANYONE to own or have access to a gun is a real two edged sword. I err on the side of caution and I like to see heavey restrictions applied.
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23rd December 2012, 03:27 PM #110
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I agree with artime,with heavy restricitions for auto weapons,the less of them must mean less people lose their lives when someone snaps.
With all the stats that have been posted does not change a thing,less weapons,less killing.
Has that not been the effect in our country??
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23rd December 2012, 04:08 PM #111
To expand on my reply to John's questions and a few other statements
In NSW and I would assume the rest of Australia, Joe Public cannot lawfully possess an Auto weapon (fully automatic or burst capable) of ANY kind. Or anything that looks like an assault type firearm. No Joe Public can purchase an M4 like the one used at Sandy Hook. Dealers can possess them, but cannot use them. Dealers have a much, much higher level of required security, storage and scrutiny. Joe Public cannot lawfully possess a semi automatic firearm without providing bona-fide reason for needing one (primary producer, professional pest eradicator) and once you are permitted to have one, you put yourself in the spotlight. The police know who you are. It is very difficult (not impossible, anything is possible) to obtain the appropriate paperwork to have one without being legitimate. As a primary producer, I am only permitted one semi automatic, small calibre rim-fire and one semi automatic (used to be max 5 shots, but i think it has been reduced to 3) shotgun, If I want to purchase another, I have to sell the one I have, wait for that process to go through before I can purchase another. Semi automatic, centrefire rifles require another level. AFAIK, a professional vertebrate pest controller is the only valid reason for a semi automatic, centrefire rifle.
To purchase any type of firearm in NSW, one must complete and pay for (non-refundable) an application, which is sent to the Firearms Registry. If the firearms registry approve the Permit to Acquire, you are then able to purchase the firearm. That process takes about two weeks. A newly licensed person must wait about eight weeks before they can purchase a firearm. Thats after waiting about six weeks or more for the licensing process to be completed. A Permit to Acquire is only valid for specific types of firearms, you cannot purchase a large calibre, centrefire firearm with a permit that has been issued to purchase a small calibre rim-fire.
If one buys a collectible firearm, and there are firearms out there worth many, many thousands, it cannot lawfully be used. It must be temporarily deactivated and stored the same way as normal firearms.If you find you have dug yourself a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging.
I just finished child-proofing our house - but they still get inside.
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24th December 2012, 08:47 AM #112
Jim
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Compared to the relatively muted and civilised opinions voiced in this thread, matters are being expressed much more strongly in the US.
'Deport Piers Morgan': bid to kick out TV host for gun stanceCheers,
Jim
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24th December 2012, 09:34 AM #113
Arthur
Don't expect the NRA and the gun lobby to take this lying down. They are going to come out firing (in the name of peace, of course ). Perhaps we should let them just get on with it. 32,000 gun-related homicides a year is more casualties than they are taking in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. It would appear that it is safer to holiday in those war-torn countries than to visit the US. There's a sobering thought.
As long as we are maintaining a degree of balance here in OZ perhaps we shouldn't be too concerened about their problems. The fact we are concerned just plants us firmly in the ranks of the human race.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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24th December 2012, 04:37 PM #114
Mug punter
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sorry about the delay in replying, i have been doing things other than research ... an interesting article with some good anecdotal examples of how the ownership of guns has prevented major events along the lines of the current event
when they get to statistics though, they are guilty of either sloppy analysis or disingenous behaviour
the statistics to which they refer have no relation to gun crime nor to fatalities of any sort ... in new zealand gun related crime as a subset of violent crime represents less than 2% ... the homicide rate by gun is 0.16 in nz to 2.97 (per 100000 pop) ... massively different and presenting and opposite viewpoint to the magazine article
if they were making an argument that ease of access to guns reduced violent crime overall, that may be sustainable (although not definite) ... a counter argument is that if there is a place that has a lot of violent crime (eg rugby brawls) do you want them to also have easy access to guns? ...
thanks for the link though ... an interesting perspective and led me to more information on the subject
regards david
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24th December 2012, 05:20 PM #115
Jim
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And here's the BBC's correspondent's look at the NRA response:
BBC News - Newtown shootings: Obama v the NRACheers,
Jim
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24th December 2012, 06:24 PM #116
Mug punter
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interesting ... particularly that 53% of americans agree with it ... mind you at a simplistic level, i think they are correct : the only (sensible) way to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun
at a deeper level the question really should be : why do the bad people get guns
as that article shows the nra has a huge influence on the political will of the country ... i quoted this in another post but will repeat it here in the context of the question "why do bad people get guns"
it is probably disingenuous to suggest that the problem is purely mental health care and indeed the ready availability of guns HAS to be a major part of teh problem ... remember that whilst it is a federal law in the us to restrict sales to mentally ill only 40% of sales actually come under conditions that require vetting of teh purchaser (only six states have laws closing this loophole) and 27 states do not require reporting of mental illness to the nics (national instant background check system)
i can only guess that there is an influence on the states that don't make any effort to fix those problems
regards david
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24th December 2012, 06:27 PM #117
Skwair2rownd
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To all the members of the NRA and the Gun Owners' Association : There are none so blind as those who REFUSE to see.
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24th December 2012, 07:37 PM #118Visit my website at www.myFineWoodWork.com
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25th December 2012, 03:19 PM #119
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Merry Christmas!
Here's another favourite cohort of victims shooters love to target. The very people meant to protect them, emergency workers.-Scott
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25th December 2012, 04:25 PM #120
The obvious answer to that is to give each firefighter a AK-47. That will blow the bastard's brain out before he could harm anyone. Now what about the fire?
Visit my website at www.myFineWoodWork.com
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