Bushfires near Tolmie

[Sturdee]

We have caused huge damage to the planet and the creatures/ plants that we proclaim mastership over deserve our help.

shaun

All creatures have rights, especially rats according to one local council when a ratepayer complained about a rats problem where they where coming out of a councils drain and they refused to bait the drain.:mad:

IMO the rights of people surpasses all right of other creatures and plants. In fact certain animals should be hunted down and destroyed, eg. sharks, crocodiles, possums and cats.


Peter.

[Doughboy]

Geez Peter

I reckon you are being a bit harsh. Crocodiles are good for thinning out pesky tourists!

Pete

[Clinton1]

Fuel reduction, as I said, is important, but when are you going to do it? There is a fine line (and getting smaller) between having the fuel too wet to burn and too dry to burn safely. Who is going to do it? The volunteers are already over worked and really don't need to be mopping up countless hundreds of hectares all night. Who is going to pay for it?

There is a lot of 'correct things" in the above quote... but the incorrect things is with respect to the volunteers, and 'pay for it'.... not having a go at Shaun... but at the system and its masters, instead.

I think it is ridiculous that we are relying on a large amount of volunteers to control these 'wildfires'.... thank God for the volunteers, and they are all champions in my view, but.... I think its time to put some of these people in full time employment, doing both fuel reduction and fire season fighting.
I'm not proposing that the volunteers are 'done away with' - frankly I think they should get a medal and a ticker tape parade, but they should be strengthened with more resources.

A large and committed labour force has been removed from forests with the removal of logging - bringing in a lot of paid, full time (or better yet - job share), positions to the CFA would go some way to redressing this.


As to "pay for it" - if the landowners (Fed and State Govt entities) don't get serious and sort their management out, then frankly they should be taken to court and made to be personally responsible.
I've heard a lot of excuses as to why fuel reduction burns were not done in Vic over the last 5 years... most are to do with lack of $ and lack of staff. I also think that the "foxes are running the chicken coop" and the lack of burns are due to moronic politics.

Perhaps its time that they stump up the $ to correctly manage the land, and if they can't then it will probably take political action to fix the problem. Trouble is.... if it doesn't involve a tax cut, most people don't give a stuff about it. As far as I'm concerned irresponsible fire management is worse for the environment than a 75 - 100 year forestry rotation.

As usual, most of the crud is caused by idiot humans allowing the pendulum to swing too wildly.

[Iain]

Cattle do not belong in national parks, and people can visit delicate areas on foot.

In Victoria's Alpine National Park we had cattle prior to it being declared a National Park, the suddenly it was PI (politically incorrect) and the poor buggers running these animals on Government leaseholds had to find a new home for several thousand head of cattle.
So it was instant loss of income for the farmers, loss of income for the government and total chaos for everyone else.
Bloody greenie crap, it really gets up my nose watching the Kombi driving cretins protesting for rights for blowflies or whatever.

[sbranden]

In Victoria's Alpine National Park we had cattle prior to it being declared a National Park, the suddenly it was PI (politically incorrect) and the poor buggers running these animals on Government leaseholds had to find a new home for several thousand head of cattle.
So it was instant loss of income for the farmers, loss of income for the government and total chaos for everyone else.
Bloody greenie crap, it really gets up my nose watching the Kombi driving cretins protesting for rights for blowflies or whatever.

I guess you would prefer it all either running cattle for your burgers or concreted to stop those pesky critters and fires. I personally want my kids to know what a bird is, not just see them in pictures. Climate change is a direct result of people acting for short term goals and profit over long term sustainability. As a Gippsland resident you are seeing the result of that first hand, but still can't associate the two.

shaun

[Gumby]

. I personally want my kids to know what a bird is,

That is typical Green hyper-rubbish and over the top scare mongering.

Sorry Shaun, but it's you and the Green bunch which just don't get it !

Now I'm outa here because I think we've all made our points and it's getting off the topic and a bit heated.

[Daddles]

Actually Gumby, it's you that isn't getting it - my kids don't know the wealth of birds I knew as a kid (it's all sparrows and minors now) and my youngest will never see the butterfly invasions that were an annual part of my childhood (haven't had one here in ten years - literally, the last one was the year I moved to this area).

This is a fragile land we live in and stuffing it around with imported animals and imported management ideas hasn't helped in the slightest. I'm guessing you're one of those who complains about people who have undergrowth right up to their houses and then wonder why it gets burnt in a bush fire (if you aren't, you should be). The use of the land, running hard footed beasts or leaving it to run without clearing, are all part of the problem. BOTH sides are at fault here and if we're ever going to get it right, all sides have to accept that the other's ideas have merit and that many of our past practices, and probably quite of few recent 'fixes', aren't good for this land and need modifying.

Richard

[Gumby]

I'm guessing you're one of those who complains about people who have undergrowth right up to their houses and then wonder why it gets burnt in a bush fire (if you aren't, you should be).

Guess again.

[Iain]

I spent a number of years in the high country with the conservation department as it was then and never saw a decline in bird or wildlife numbers, the cattle and the wildlife seemed to cohabitate without conflict, as did native flora.
Unfortunately the department seemed to be overcome by wildlife wankers.

[sbranden]

I spent a number of years in the high country with the conservation department as it was then and never saw a decline in bird or wildlife numbers, the cattle and the wildlife seemed to cohabitate without conflict, as did native flora.
Unfortunately the department seemed to be overcome by wildlife wankers.

Well I guess we need to agree to disagree. You obviously can't believe that the Conservation Department could have an interest in conserving wildlife and I can't understand why a native of Gippsland would not correlate fire behavior with environmental damage.

All the best to you and yours

shaun (proud to be a wildlife wanker)

[Grunt]

I spent a number of years in the high country with the conservation department as it was then and never saw a decline in bird or wildlife numbers, the cattle and the wildlife seemed to cohabitate without conflict, as did native flora.

What crap. Ever since white man has come to Australia, native wildlife has become extinct. Nearly a 3rd of the species that were here when white man came have become extinct or are extremely threatened.

[Grunt]

I'm a wildlife wanker too, and loving it.

Humans are doomed if we continue to think that we are above nature. It's a pity that we'll drag the rest of the worlds species with us.

[Groggy]

Lets not get personal in this thread please.

[woodbe]

Iain, if you have something to say, perhaps you might get a better hearing if you were less derogatory to anyone who might have an opinion you dislike.

Wildlife wankers and climate change wankers, "greenies" have copped a lot of flak for many years, but now some of their predictions are coming horribly true right in front of our noses.

We can argue the small points, but what is becoming increasingly obvious is that they have been pretty right about the big picture, and unless something is done for the big picture, and soon, our kids' kids are going to be living in a very different world.

Many of us are still in denial, are we going to wait until it's too late?

woodbe.

[Grunt]

Many of us are still in denial, are we going to wait until it's too late?

Yes. No doubt about it.