there is no hope for the young poeple

[Frank&Earnest]

with your finger painting to vce maths point is just a bit of grandstanding frank only history teachers do finger painting as a second subject
schools are a business now they don't put people to far from their field

most of the time teacher subject stays the same only the year level changes

Wish you were right Arty, but being a business makes things worse, not better. When an organisation is motivated by money (profit or funding, whatever) it tends to close one eye or both about principles. Look at what has happened with banks becoming loan sharks, we all got royally screwed.

[Wood Borer]

Alex,

I am taking these kids primarily for woodwork but I have included all sorts of other topics and related them back to woodwork in most cases. This approach is actively encouraged by the school.

The kids haven't studied logarithms yet however I will briefly enlighten them this week. We will probably make simple slide rules this week in between doing their main woodwork project.

The kids are quite hungry for information including solving riddles and puzzles. It is very refreshing to see their enthusiasm and enquiring minds on such a wide range of topics.

F&E,

I agree with you in the case of where people are teaching fundamentally for an income with their passion for teaching as a bonus if it exists at all.

Your example of someone who has been retrenched from an industry teaching almost irrelevant technology happens all too often or they are teaching topics of which they have very little knowledge themselves.

What can be done about it? For fast moving technologies, perhaps they need to teach part time and work at the cutting edge in that industry part time.

For less progressive industries that probably wouldn't be necessary but regular updates would be good.

As indicated earlier though I know of several people who are highly regarded internationally in their field but have difficulty sharing their knowledge. Some of them would be flat out teaching a fly to buzz.

Others who are far less brilliant in their field can convey ideas and concepts to learners very sweetly and efficiently, they were born teachers.

[joe greiner]

...
What can be done about it? For fast moving technologies, perhaps they need to teach part time and work at the cutting edge in that industry part time.

Only a few days' lapse, and I'm in the same boat. This one caught me up for comment.

Adjunct professorships exist for this very reason. According to my very imperfect understanding, some medical schools and law schools require at least a few professors to actually practise their craft. In my uni experience in engineering many years ago, most of the professors had no such practise, or had long ago left such practise. Graduates were great at research and development, using the latest analysis tools, but didn't know what constituted good construction plans. A similar remark came from an architect I recently met. In my engineering practise, I often had to re-work details cooked up by people who had never even built a bookcase made from orange crates. And the construction plans were supposed to be instructions for people with construction experience! 'Tis a minor miracle that the construction didn't go haywire. No wonder I'm almost bald!

Whenever any teacher can spark the kids' curiosity, we all win. Schools serve us best by teaching kids how to teach themselves.

By the by, I once wanted a circular slide rule to keep by a photocopier for reduction and enlargement; such capabilities may now be automatic, or partially so. I don't remember all the details, but essentially, I prepared a spreadsheet using logarithms for the angular ticks, with end points' coordinates for 5- and 10- increment values. By adding text for a LINE command for each, I made a Script file for execution in AutoCAD. I printed the resulting "picture" twice, and glued each print to cardboard, which I then cut out and attached the two circles at a central pivot of some sort. As luck would have it, I was the only one who knew how to use it. It's gone walkabout of course, but it was fun to make. I might have the files around here someplace, but it would probably be easier to start over from first principles.

One nice thing about slide rules, linear or circular, is they provide an immediate appreciation of the importance (or lack thereof) of precision. The fifth or sixth digit of a digital readout isn't so significant, after all. And the "batteries" in a slide rule never expire.

Joe

[funkychicken]

So do I count as a hopeless young person?

[Wood Borer]

Joe,

The adjunct professorships sound spot on.

Your circular slide rule sounded like a fun project. I recall there were all sorts of graphical charts where you drew lines or used a ruler to calculate quantites by intersecting curves. From memory, lots of these were in the Industrial Chemistry fields.

I have a circular slide rule used for aircraft navigation somewhere.


FC,

Based purely on my experience with younger people and if I didn't know anything about you, the chances of you being hopeless would be quite small.

As I have read your posts ............ hang on, are you after compliments? If I continued writing what I had in mind you might become over confident and stop learning.

If I said you were a hopeless young person I would be telling lies which is against my principles.

What do you suggest that I do?

[AlexS]

The situation at TAFE (technical colleges) seems to be that many of those teaching vocational subjects are doing so part time, while working in their trade or profession. For example, in the Building & Construction section where I work there are an architect, a surveyor and a builder who all work in their own practices. While it is good way for someone who is starting a new practice or who is too old to run around on roof trusses to earn a bit of secure income, they all seem to be doing it because they enjoy teaching, and do pretty good job of it as far as can tell.

FC, if you can count, you're not hopeless.

[funkychicken]

FC,

Based purely on my experience with younger people and if I didn't know anything about you, the chances of you being hopeless would be quite small.

As I have read your posts ............ hang on, are you after compliments? If I continued writing what I had in mind you might become over confident and stop learning.

If I said you were a hopeless young person I would be telling lies which is against my principles.

What do you suggest that I do?

Ah very wise you are. No I wasn't after compliments, I'm sure some forumites would be too quick to dish out the opposite

NZ does have a point, The "alf" should have had a clue about his job. Thinking (for example) that a circular saw is for cutting circular things is just plain stupid. Some kids ought to get off the xbox and into the world outside more often.

Bunnings should also have at least given the kid some training though.

In my position as a grade 10 student I see alot of thiiiick people. Like, going around punching each other just because they're thick, thick.
But not all the other students are hopeless, eg. one of my mates reads up on stuff like Mr Tesla and his inventions. He's no dummy


As for the school system....Don't get me started It's flawed, I'll just say that much.

[Wood Borer]

FC,

Don't be too harsh on the "thick ones". We all mature at different rates and sometimes we look back after we have matured a bit and are embarrassed at what we see - big deal, keep looking forward because you can't change either the past or what is natural.

Some of those "thick kids" will turn out fine, some of them will remain thick and become thick old pharts.

Don't be fooled into thinking that older people are all wise - some of the dumbest people I know are old (some even older than me) - age hasn't got much to do with it.

The people I feel sorry for are those who have never been given an opportunity and lack the confidence to improve themselves.

The education system is certainly not perfect and never has been but hopefully it is improving.

[Andy Mac]

Thinking (for example) that a circular saw is for cutting circular things is just plain stupid.

I'm still wondering if this guy was having a joke and it was missed in transit!

[silentC]

That's my reading of it.

[Frank&Earnest]

That's my reading of it.

Ditto.

Arab proverb: If entering your tent you hit your head against the water jar and it sounds empty, do not be too quick to conclude that it is the jar that's empty.

[Frank&Earnest]

... some of the dumbest people I know are old (some even older than me) - age hasn't got much to do with it.

... what about senility?

[wheelinround]

I wonder if the young fellow decided he should find out for himself and investigated at least he's working earning a few lousy $$$$ not on the dole or Austudy, HEX debt, sponging off mum n dad.

While Bunnies management whom are supposed to be well versed possibly HSC know it all's, rub their hands together reaping the rewards of tax payers dollars for training he is possibly not getting building their bank accounts.

Similar to those teachers who had many pay rises during the kids years at school.
I wonder if he knows he's being rubbished by so many teachers here on the forum.

Maybe the school system with all its changes, staff re-arranging, the particular school he went to didn't have industrial arts wood work metal work. Had to drop subjects as there were no staff to teach it they didn't get the funding but where placed elsewhere, went off to be TAFE teachers or run their own business.

After all I have used a circular saw to cut round things it is possible

Jig saws are not used to cut a Jig are they

Scrollsaw don't cut scrolls

Bandsaw's don't cut band's

Oh to be born with all the knowledge needed to get through life then there would be no need for teachers

[SPIRIT]

l work at the welfare end of school system ,in our program there is one teacher with a artisan (old tradie ) we work with 10 kids and have them all day 1 day a week for a year this way we get to know the student and their needs .
Went down to the beach today and painted a gazebo BBQ area with a different school l was proud of my boys how well they worked and got along with the other kids


had to have a snooze on the bus back to school

[Frank&Earnest]

Scrollsaw don't cut scrolls

English is never that clearcut, Wheely . I have just been looking to buy a scrollsaw specifically to cut the outlines of scrolls .... as in carved ornaments, not as in parchment. (Bought a 9" bandsaw with a 1/8" blade instead, don't need internal cuts.)

Another plausible explanation for a genuine "circular" saw misunderstanding is that the kid got confused with "hole" saws. They are circular, are they not? It is the kind of mistake i could see myself making, and I am certainly not young and, even if I keep joking about becoming senile out of fear , so far I am not stupid either... Maybe English was his/her second language?