Rob Streeper - a USA member here - got the C19 virus

[Chief Tiff]

Tried to cross a border lately? They are patrolled by men with guns! Unlike US citizens we have been disarmed and are at the complete mercy of the government. That's exactly why the US constitution allows citizens to bear arms, to counter corrupt government.

I don’t have a problem with the above. We got the government we voted for as citizens; and although I’m sketchy on Australian political history I don’t think we’ve ever had a government that would be described as “corrupt”.

Both the State and Federal Police are enforcing the borders and no policeman on border control can fire on anybody attempting to break quarantine unless there is a clear and obvious threat to life. Their Use Of Force procedures and Rules Of Engagement are very clear on these things. What they will do is hunt them down and lock them up; hopefully with a large gentleman who thinks they’re very pretty. As does his mate.

[AlexS]

Tried to cross a border lately? They are patrolled by men with guns! Unlike US citizens we have been disarmed and are at the complete mercy of the government. That's exactly why the US constitution allows citizens to bear arms, to counter corrupt government.

Worked well there, hasn't it?

[D.W.]

I just watched the news and heard the US had just had 67,000 new infections ( a record) then saw a guy in a US supermarket pull a gun because he was asked to wear a mask, saw a hall full of teenagers crowded together and refusing to follow directions and wear masks or socially distance; saw an adult saying it was all a conspiracy so she would never wear a mask then saw a medical guy saying if they would only listen re wearing masks and socially distancing they would have some hope of virus control.

I think there may be some truth in Woodpixel’s post.

Thanks to the world of cell phones, you can see the three worst people each day out of 350 million and get some kind of false idea that's sort of a normal thing.

I'm 43, almost 44 - my entire life until a couple of years ago, either my dad owned guns and I lived with my parents or I owned guns (I turned them into guitars - in my single life, I had a target shooting hobby and reloaded. It was great. very similar to woodworking, in fact - building things, testing them out, etc. Now that I'm married with kids, I don't have time to just blow a day on that like I used, so trade for guitars makes sense. Like most men, I have no real regard for safety, so the lack of guns now makes me feel no different).

All that said, I catch public transportation in the city and I have seen small-time drug deals late at night (as in person to person) maybe twice. I have never once seen a gun brandish or used, or even heard gunfire. Cherry picking individual events and making it out like that's what it's like to live here is just farce.

What you're more likely to find here is neighbors talking to each other, not discussing politics, and perhaps doing a socially distanced event outdoors. The world of selected news stories is make believe.

Trump is a stump, but the idea that somehow the country is much more divided than it was under bush, or clinton or obama is false. The delivery system to pound people with stories can sure drive someone nuts if they want to dwell on a certain subject. I think that's a shame. Life is better without politics in general, especially on any kind of regular basis. My rule (as a centrist) is that if either political party gets on TV, nothing substantive will be said, so I change the channel. It never really has any effect on whats' going on at my doorstep. Just like listening to news about shootings between drug dealers in chicago.

25 years ago, I did have an uncle shoot himself. That sucked. I think he was finding a way out no matter what, though.

[Bohdan]

Thanks to the world of cell phones, you can see the three worst people each day out of 350 million and get some kind of false idea that's sort of a normal thing.

True. But how come we don't see these people in other parts of the world to the same extent.

[D.W.]

Maybe the rest of the world wants none, and we're OK with one or two in 350 million per day.

I'm sure you'll see these things in other parts of the world like russia or brazil, and once in a while in canada (though I think they have a tenth of the population that we do).

If anything like this happens in china, I don't think the video will ever get out - that's for sure.

[FenceFurniture]

Maybe the rest of the world wants none, and we're OK with one or two in 350 million per day.

The very fact that it's "ok" to have one or two events per day speaks volumes about what is regarded as part of "normal", and how people in the Americas (both continents) seem to accept gun related violence as a "normal" part of "life". They appear to have become blasé about gun violence.

I don't know where this site gets its data from, but it is probably at least indicative. No data on Bolivia, but it's probably red too.


Have a look at the bubble chart here, below the table (which is declared as "incomplete" - no Russian stats, just for one omission.
Firearm related death rate.jpg

Compare Europe's stats to the US. Significantly larger population (+40%?) in Europe in a similar geographical size.

[D.W.]

The very fact that it's "ok" to have one or two events per day speaks volumes about what is regarded as part of "normal", and how people in the Americas (both continents) seem to accept gun related violence as a "normal" part of "life". They appear to have become blasé about gun violence.

Give the drama queen stories and admonishing a rest. Please.

[FenceFurniture]

I can't see anything dramatic in looking at statistics, except the figures themselves.

[aldav]

Cherry picking individual events and making it out like that's what it's like to live here is just farce.

Although it's nice that you personally haven't been touched by any of the worst atrocities of the gun culture in the US it's disturbing that you're apparently prepared to accept them as an unavoidable side effect of the citizens 'right' to own guns. Whilst we have episodes of 'baddies' shooting one another up here (like you we tend to be a little relaxed about this) the incidence of disgruntled/mentally unstable individuals murdering multiple innocent victims is virtually nonexistent compared to the appalling record in the US. I can only conclude that there are far too many ordinary citizens in the US who are in total denial of the real risk posed by the virtually uncontrolled ownership guns, either that or they're prepared to accept the murder of innocents as an acceptable trade off to maintain their 'rights'. Personally I'm happy to have a much reduced chance of being shot, either intentionally or by accident, in the first place.

[FenceFurniture]

Personally I'm happy to have a much reduced chance of being shot, either intentionally or by accident, in the first place.

Does that mean you won't be going to Parliament House armed with an assault rifle if mask-wearing becomes mandatory?

[Tccp123]

No he won't and neither will anyone else, for two reasons:

1) He won't be able to source an assault rifle

2) There are armed men waiting at the border to ensure he doesn't cross it

[poundy]

2) There are armed men waiting at the border to ensure he doesn't cross it

I really don't get your vehement positioning here.
Ordinarily, there are armed men waiting to apprehend you breaking other laws as well. They're called police, they drive around in cars with flashy lights on them (sometimes) and are there to make sure you don't do stuff that you're not entitled to do. Often they don't hang around in a particular geographic location and stop people moving past that location, but they do regularly do that as situations arise - road closures when there's an event occupying an area, crime scenes etc. It's just that this is a lot more obvious.

Sure, current border restrictions are an inconvenience of the utmost, and likely to be for some time. It's certainly a restriction that affects my family - I have a SIL who is currently based on GC with a son working there and living with them, and they have a property in NSW, that they haven't been able to easily travel backwards and forwards to as they normally would have. But I totally understand each state govt wanting to limit the chances of someone inadvertently bringing the disease into an area that isn't affected. And as we have seen it clearly will spread quickly and easily, so reducing the risk of things moving between states makes sense to me.

[Tccp123]

I really don't get your vehement positioning here.

I disagree with ALL police carrying guns with a licence to use them. You're old enough to remember when this wasn't the case. But I particularly disagree with people performing work that isn't related to crime carrying guns. The people going through those checkpoints aren't criminals so why treat them as such?

I accept that there are situations where weapons are a requirement for keeping the peace but can't this be limited to the minimum required?

I can't help but think back to that guy who was shot in the Lockyer Valley a couple of years ago. Apparently he was vermin and deserved what he got but the part I didn't like was how the town was cleared of everyone but police and essentially a siege took place. He eventually bolted and was shot by a marksman - in the chest - not once, but three times. Now my limited understanding of modern rifles is that it would be possible to hit any part of his body but obviously that wasn't what happened. The police commissioner subsequently stated that a full, transparent enquiry would take place...and I never heard or read another word about it. That's what happens when you arm the police. Police are just human and have human emotions. Emotions and guns don't mix IMO.

[FenceFurniture]

I think now is as good a time as any to get back on topic. Arguments about gun culture never get anywhere. Just be glad we don't have much of one here.

[Tccp123]

I think now is as good a time as any to get back on topic. Arguments about gun culture never get anywhere. Just be glad we don't have much of one here.

Yep, let's just sweep it under the carpet and forget it ever happened.