Katoomba Monthly Temp average set to be SMASHED!!! AGAIN!!!

[ian]

G'Day Bret, Yes they are stationed at and flying out of Richmond RAAF base. A good location for them as it is pretty central for the rest of the State. They were a Godsend for Bilpin,
(snip)
I think the 747's was the best idea so far.

are you sure the fire bombers are 747s

The one's I've seen look a lot like the much smaller 737s to me

[Bohdan]

If we are going to prevent something like this happening again there are going to have to be many changes made.

Since in the minds of our current pollys "its already happened so there is no need to worry about it", as it probably won't happen again in their political lifetimes, there is little chance that any really effective changes will occure.

[FenceFurniture]

What we need is a way of communicating our displeasure en-mass. A petition? I wouldn't expect the Morrison supporter to sign it, but everyone else could.

BTW, does anyone know who the Morrison supporter is, or where he or she lives?

[woodPixel]

Remove humans, nature rebounds.... Study shows animal life thriving around Fukushima

[doug3030]

BTW, does anyone know who the Morrison supporter is, or where he or she lives?

I will put my hand up for that in light of the current alternatives. We don't really have much choice right now do we?

[FenceFurniture]

Your sacrifice is legendary Doug.

[AlexS]

Paradoxically, about the last thing we need RIGHT now is heavy rain.
The risk of heavy rain triggering catastrophic flooding is just too great.


From Canada we've been following the situation back home.
What we need is a prolonged period of gentle steady rain. Something like 600 to 900 mm spread over 3 to 4 months.
All heavy rain will do is run right off the current bone dry ground.

Unfortunately, I expect what we will get is heavy rain that runs off more than it soaks in ...

Quite right. If we get heavy rain it will run off, taking a lot of ash and topsoil with it. This will effect the turbidity, which can reduce the effectiveness of water treatment plants, and also increase dissolved solids. These can effect invertebrates and fish.
It would be nice to get a week or so of 20mm a day, then a break to allow a bit of cover to grow, before we get heavier heavier rain. If only we could have weather to order.

[ian]

It would be nice to get a week or so of 20mm a day, then a break to allow a bit of cover to grow, before we get heavier heavier rain. If only we could have weather to order.

Quite right Alex -- we need to get weather to order

[FenceFurniture]

Be careful reading this:
BOM review shows 2019 was a year of weather extremes - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Or simply choose to ignore it?

[FenceFurniture]

This is a fascinating short read on Cultural Burning, and the 10 minute HD video at the bottom is excellent. Everything they say makes complete sense.
Indigenous fire practices have been used to quell bushfires for thousands of years, experts say - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

They speak of getting the country healthy again, and it seems to me that if CBs were pursued as potentially the main "tool in the bag" then it would also greatly strengthen the Black Fella's bonding with their land, and greatly improve their own health at the same time. We've tried to "help" them to be white for too long now, so maybe it's time to just let them be black?

[Chris Parks]

On cultural burning you have to understand the RFS in NSW. it has been a knigdom building political exercise from the Waterfall incident where many firefighter lives were lost (8?) due to the poor equipment in use at the time. A decision was rightly made that the RFS needed a total overhaul in all and every aspect and the government swallowed hard and did it. At the same time certain figures saw the opportunity to expand their political and departmental influence and in some cases that was repeated at a lower level as well. The RFS as a philosophy does not believe that low intensity burning works unless they have changed their mind and more importantly they believe they are always right and no one else can be. For many years they refused to believe that aerial water bombing could work in Australia and opposed its introduction. I am not sure when they changed on that or even if they did but it might have been around the turn of the century fire season we had.

I have not been directly involved for many years so some of the above may have changed. The on ground people who deal with the fire holding the hose are heroes, it is the upper echelons that caused the problems when I was involved and a lot of it was inter service rivalry which is not a good thing. Add the NP&WS to the mix and no one can agree on anything.

[Bushmiller]

are you sure the fire bombers are 747s

The one's I've seen look a lot like the much smaller 737s to me

Ian

Unfortunately, I think you may be right. A quick look on the net indicates that only three 747s have been built and only a single version remains in service so it is probably unlikely that current government would have taken any steps to hire it even if it was available. The 747 requires a 2400m runway to take off.

It seems likely that the aircraft Ken saw was a 737 as NSW apparently owns such a beast. It was probably obscured by smoke so difficult to identify.

NSW buys Boeing 737 large air tanker for firefighting - Australian Aviation

If the 737 ability was so dramatic, imagine how effective a 747 would be. More than three times the capacity! For example, from where we are the flying time would be about 20 minutes from Brisbane and probably 15 minutes return assuming priority would be given for take off and landing in Brisbane. I take Brett's point about the turn around times of small aircraft and choppers, but you also have to have water. Remember that country areas are in a drought. There is very little stored water in many regional areas of Australia.

Perhaps we need some more aircraft: Of all types.

Regards
paul

[Bohdan]

The defence forces are so named because their job is to defend us against danger.

I don't see why our air force couldn't operate a fleet of water bombers which would actually defend us against the real dangers that exist today.
They are supposed to have the skills to bomb targets and the extra practice wouldn't hurt.

The military are helping now but it shouldn't have required an 'on leave' PMs action to get their help.

They should be available whenever needed.

[doug3030]

The military are helping now but it shouldn't have required an 'on leave' PMs action to get their help.

They should be available whenever needed.

I cannot say for sure how it is now, but back in the day ...

When I was in the Army all they had to do was ask. State governments, local councils and even individuals could ask for assistance.

Over 30 years ago when I had not yet even risen above the rank of Sergeant, I was on duty one Sunday and a local farmer who lived opposite the base drove in the gate to advise of a grass-fire on his property and asked if we could help him. I got the fire team mobilized and the fire was quickly dealt with.

I recorded the incident in my Duty Log Book,which I presented to the Adjutant on dismounting duty on Monday morning. His only comment was "Well done Sergeant".

Prime minister at the time was Bob Hawke. I doubt that he was ever aware of this action to his dying day.

I authorized it as a duty person without reference to any higher authority at the request of a citizen.

If I had been asked to justify my actions, which I was expecting to have to do but was not, I would have said that the fire may have posed a risk to military assets if it had not been extinguished.

[Bushmiller]

Doug

I went looking for the tab that says "Really, really REALLY like" but as you are aware, there isn't one. So suffice to say that even if common sense is no longer with us, there are still a few people around who remember what it was.

Regards
Paul