Installing cooktop - do I need an electrician - and if so why?

[silentC]

There should be some way that people such as marine engineers ...

There is, it's called an apprenticeship

But seriously, it costs money to set up things like that and the question is whether it's worth it or not just so a handful of retired marine engineers can get certification to wire their own plugs.

If you were leaving the Navy and wanting to enter the electrical trades, then that's a different story but again they have apprenticeships for that.

[journeyman Mick]

WARNING: can of worms being opened!
Actually, you can wire your own plug. As far as I know it's not illegal for people to undertake repairs on their own appliances as long as they are not part of the fixed wiring. Probably highly inadvisable in a lot of cases, but not illegal.

Mick

[silentC]

As far as I know it's not illegal for people to undertake repairs on their own appliances

I'm not certain what the law says about it. I know it will void your warranty.

I found one link on Google that says it is legal to wire your own plugs in WA as long as it's not done for profit or employment. I can't find anything authoritative on it though, probably buried in some act of Parliament.

I suppose if it was illegal, just about everyone of us would have broken the law, probably many times over.

[journeyman Mick]

It came up in one of the "home sparky" threads. Someone got the relevant legislation/standards and it appears that it's silent about people doing their own repairs. Like you said, it will void your warranty, but more importantly, if you don't know what you're doing it may kill you or one of your family.

Mick

[silentC]

It came up in one of the "home sparky" threads

It was probably the one I tuned out of after the replies got too long for me to be bothered reading...

That being the case, there's something to be said for the argument that educating people in how to do it properly would probably be a good idea. If it's legal, then courses on how to wire plugs would probably save lives. I actually think now that the removal of wiring guides from the backs of the packets has more to do with avoiding liability than anything else.

It wouldn't have helped Geno though because stoves are usually hardwired and that would definiately be covered by the regulations.

[journeyman Mick]

It's more like it's not illegal, rather than being legal. I think it may just be an oversight in the legislation. That said, and without wanting to start the whole debate again, I think there is a place for education and some form of limited occupier license, subject to inspection.

Mick

[Metal Head]

I'm not certain what the law says about it. I know it will void your warranty.

I found one link on Google that says it is legal to wire your own plugs in WA as long as it's not done for profit or employment. I can't find anything authoritative on it though, probably buried in some act of Parliament.

I suppose if it was illegal, just about everyone of us would have broken the law, probably many times over.

That's correct Silent. As long as you are deemed "COMPENTENT" you can do your own repairs on an appliance that has a plug on the end of the power lead.

However, I wouldn't advise it.

Btw, does anyone have any idea how many people have died in the past year by carrying out this type of work?.

I haven't read about anyone dying because of it. A bit of a shock to me .

[chrisv]

Mick,

Ooopppss...did not see the original date of posting, being a new member will have to take more notice of these things!

Just for the point of discussion, if anybody has a formal electrical qualification from outside of eg. QLD, they can complete at TAFE a subject called "ELC-001 Electrical Installation, Inspection & Testing" as a 80hr subject partime. This will then able you to apply to the Electrical Safety Office to prove your competency and proof of previous work undertaken.

But getting through the QLD TAFE sysytem is a nightmare, anything from general questions or subjkects to gain "Contractors License" is almost impossible without being about. Good luck guys

[nic]

Not wanting to throw fuel in the fire, but all these threads about certain death if you mess with anything 240V related?
Has anyone actually touched a live 240V wire ?
I know I have at least 4 or 5 times, starting when I was 10 and I'm here to tell the tale...I'm not talking about having feet in the bathtub and putting your fingers in the plug.
With the amount of miss information that goes around though I'm not surprised that people would kill themselves. Working with electricity is not dangerous (I'll get flamed for this) IF you have some basic understanding and follow simple basic rules.
As some else said, it's no more dangerous than having a DIY builder build a 2 meter high deck with a doggy fence.

I'd strongly agree with any kind of basic information (like what I was taught in high school in Europe) to educate people.
What ever you legislate or ban,people will always want to fix stuff themselves, besides has anyone actually tried to get a sparky out for a 20 second fix it job ?

Take care

Nic

[MurrayD99]

Once upon a time... I wired in a new stove. It was as straightforward as could be, no upgrade etc, switch where it should be. Put the fuse back in and "nothing" Dead. Checked the wiring, felt real bad, wondered . Got drill to take back off again - drill dead..... Ohhhh, blown the house circuits and transformer have I? Walked down drive and started at transformer up the pole.... looked OK - they generally do. Felt terrible now - took the whole district down did I? Couple of hours later the power went on again... tree across line back towards the source (is there a "source" for volts, amps and watts?). Stove worked OK after that. Whew......

[silentC]

all these threads about certain death if you mess with anything 240V related

Nobody is saying that it's certain death to mess with 240v. We are saying that it is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing (or think you do, as a lot of people seem to). The funny thing about topics like this is that until you really delve into them (by which I mean go and study, get hands on) you probably don't realise how much there is to know and how much you actually don't.

I think you need more than basic understanding and basic rules to work with electricity. Anyone can wire a plug (but probably not to Australian standards as discussed a couple of pages earlier). But beyond that, you really need to know what you are doing - and as far as I'm concerned that goes beyond the basic instruction that you might have received in high school. I learned to wire a plug in high school too but it doesn't equip me to wire up a house.

Yes I have had a few kicks in my life, some my fault and some not. I'm still here too but there are plenty of people who are not. I don't think there is any debate at all that electric shock will kill you. You and I are lucky.

[lnt9000]

It was probably the one I tuned out of after the replies got too long for me to be bothered reading...


It wouldn't have helped Geno though because stoves are usually hardwired and that would definiately be covered by the regulations.

They r not hard wired anymore, havn't been for many years, all through an iso switch, another reason why anyone not in the game doesn't know the current regs, which I might add are not freely available, everything costs dollars and if your not part of the system your not contributing to the club, an elite club it is, you don't have to be smart or have any major degrees, just do the apprenticeship, conform and don't buck the rules, pay your fees, and your welcome, no outsiders allowed!.
Plumbing is exactly the same......

[nic]

you don't have to be smart or have any major degrees, just do the apprenticeship, conform and don't buck the rules, pay your fees, and your welcome, no outsiders allowed!.

Sounds like a gang ... I thought it was for safety ...

Nic

[silentC]

They r not hard wired anymore, havn't been for many years

Last floor standing electric stove I had installed was hardwired - no plug. That was about 11 years ago. I think the oven we put in the new place might have had a plug.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Nobody is saying that it's certain death to mess with 240v. We are saying that it is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing (or think you do, as a lot of people seem to).

The worst of it is that others can be injured instead. Let's say you wire in a cook-top, turn it on and it works. Does this mean that everything is hunky-dory? Well... let's further assume that someone else comes along a bit later, wipes down the benchtop with a damp rag and gets a nasty shock when they brush against the cooktop 'cos you mixed up earth & neutral.

Still hunky-dory? No way! Fatal? Rarely. A bloody nasty thing to happen? Definitely! Not something I'd wish on a loved one...