Owner Building - YES or NO?

[boban]

This is for real, we know the guys at csr and they even have reps that go on to site to ensure that all CSR is used, also Tilling timber is now doing the same thing with there enginered wood products. You have to be a BIG home builder for these % to add up to any thing decent.

You're right Gaza, and, when you build a display home, it costs you next to nothing in materials.

[DavidG]

So - given the info above - I should be Ok building a kit home provided I do not get any subbies in.

Looks like I will have to do without electricity but I can have water. (no town water or sewer but mains electricity)

[bitingmidge]

Its really a matter of personalities, those that can't handle problems and those that let problems roll off their backs

(btw the same crap happens to builders too its not an exclusive OB thing)
.

Spot on Bob!

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Workplace Health and Safety yet??? The ultimate Catch 22: If you are aware of your obligations you'd never do it, if you aren't. . . . . you shouldn't even think about it.

Just back from a visit to my favourite site: (The one where we got the infringement notice for the non-functioning number plate light on the non-roadgoing unregistered big mother of a crane).

Today's special: An "Improvement" notice from the WH&S genius, because the Plumber didn't have his ABN on his certificate!! I've never seen anyone fall over an ABN before, but I guess that'd be the only place to safely store them.

(ABN = Australian Business No, required for GST reporting purposes!)

And some people do this for FUN????

P (I do!)

[Clinton1]

What makes you think that you can do it cheaper than:
the person that probably has a trade, did a "Grad Dip" in building, and now specialises in building in a competitive market as their chosen profession?

Is my question making sense? Could someone do your job, without training or experience and do your job just as well, without making mistakes?

You reckon you are scared of getting ripped off - get more quotes, and start to try to justify the cost breakdowns.


I think you should be careful of the opinions from owner/builders about "how easy it all is" NO OFFENCE MEANT all you O/B's, its just that if these opinions come from those O/B's that have done a few houses, they have learnt their mistakes, and may not remember the initial pain/cost. Try to get them talking about the first house.... different story.

How about getting the uncle to step in an help or run things?

[boban]

Isn't that a catch 22 situation Clinton. You can only get to house number 3 or 4 after you did number 1.

I get what your saying, but cottage building is not difficult. If you look at most large project builders, the supervisor is rarely on site. They rely heavily on the tradies to do their job properly. You get the right tradies and the jobs so much easier.

If you can plan and organise you can build a house.

I wonder if the tradies here would build their own house, given that most are not qualified buillders?

I know my situation is different but you can save money. Example, my sister and her neighbour built at the same time. Both blocks virtually identical, sloping heavily from front to back. She paid $7000 for excavation and the neighbour paid $50,000.

Perhaps I should have pocketed an extra $43,000. I should add $3000 for my father's supervision but I would be overpaying him. This is an example of where some builders pocket huge dollars. Another is on pier holes. Site costs are the hidden killer.

My sister was quoted between $520 and $560K to build her house by other builders before she decided to go the owner builder route. She paid $270K to finish it. To this you can add the labour component of the timber fixout, painting, tiling, concreting, kitchen and my supervision. I've estimated this to be $100K at most. So I dont understand the view that you will not save money if you build yourself.

[Clinton1]

Sorry, that last post of mine will probably come across all wrong.

I'm suffering from the flu, tired and all grumpy because I spent most of last night trying to stop flooding, the rest stressing about the damage. The house I bought recently had an extention done that was finished on the cheap by a bodgy OB who stuffed up a rather simple concept that I haven't got round to fixing yet. Yes, external paving does have to be below the dampcourse and doors of the building it abuts... simply theory really.

So I should have said...
You will 'save' the builders fee. The question is, will you be able to save the builders fee, after all there may be a reason that people pay professionals a fee to do a job.

See, all sarcastic and caustic again.
I'm going to bed, perchance to dream of paving to rip up, levels to drop, drainage to install and paving to relay.
Hey, Al - wanna do some paving free??? Pay me back for the trauma of rude foil photos?

Last word before bed - renos made me realise the meaning of the saying "a month of Sundays". I think that as satisfying as being an O/B will be (and I do intend to build the 'final' house I want), there will be many, many months (years) of trying to work 7 days a week and to get 8 days work done in that week.
Next time your uncle says "its all easy, go for it", tell him to put up and come and show you how its done. After all, if he's done a few houses, he's not really a rank amateure anymore is he, more a semi-skilled professional. Seems like a solution.

[rick_rine]

Well said Clinton1

What makes you think that you can do it cheaper than:
the person that probably has a trade, did a "Grad Dip" in building, and now specialises in building in a competitive market as their chosen profession?

Is my question making sense? Could someone do your job, without training or experience and do your job just as well, without making mistakes?

I think you should be careful of the opinions from owner/builders about "how easy it all is" NO OFFENCE MEANT all you O/B's, its just that if these opinions come from those O/B's that have done a few houses, they have learnt their mistakes, and may not remember the initial pain/cost. Try to get them talking about the first house.... different story.

Hey , does any one read my posts ? I for one have been saying this all along and trying my darnest as an owner builder to convince people not to do it for many of the reasons stated here . It is hard . It is a job for professionals . It will cost you more .
Just dont do it !

P.s from the interest shown in this thread I have been trying to set up a poll but am just to computer illiterate . Can someone post a poll , Would you be an owner builder ?
Rick

[silentC]

Why the hell is the brickie grumbling?
More money for him, or arent you paying him??

Al

Hell no! He's my Uncle and he's doing it for free. Do you think I'm silly?

Boban, re the concretor, he IS the project manager!! Not for much longer though, there's been a coup. Never a dull moment....

The only thing I would add to the debate is that if you are going to do it, you need to be able to get on the site regularly because things have a tendency to get out of hand if you turn your back for even a minute.

And don't listen to brickies, they are like the drummers of the building world

[echnidna]

And disregard the I.T. OB's too, their software doesn't actually hammer in even one nail

[silentC]

Ah, but it pays for the nails and the hammer though

[namtrak]

What makes you think that you can do it cheaper than:
the person that probably has a trade, did a "Grad Dip" in building, and now specialises in building in a competitive market as their chosen profession?

This is the budget I built for our owner built reno. Sorry for the lost formatting. So far I have come in under budget on all items, apart from the wiring which came in about $2,000 over. The total cost includes nearly $29,000 in unforeseens. I had multiple quotes for most items in my budget and estimated the labour component at $37 per hour per person for labourers who are willing to be paid $25 per hour.

The cheapest quote we had from a builder was for $218,000. We will get the job done for somewhere around $110,000.

How does an owner builder save money? I don't need to make a profit. I don't even need to pay myself for my hours!!

Where I 'lose money' is when I do those extra little bits I want which I can afford cause of the savings we are making.

Cheers

17/05/2005
Building Materials Product Amount Unit Price per Unit Cost
Flooring Timber Flooring Cypress 80mm 900 lm $5 $4,500
Decking Merbau 80mm 300 lm $4 $1,200
Polyurethrane Tung Oil 20 litres $20 $400
Sub-Total $6,100
Roofing Roofing Colorbond 200 sqm $14 $2,800
Guttering Colorbond 40 lm $7 $280
Capping Colorbond 35 lm $9 $315
Valleys Colorbond 18 lm $10 $180
Fascia (house) Colorbond 65 lm $7 $455
Brackets Mixed Total $200 $200
Sizalation 140 sqm $2 $280
Sub-Total $4,510
Footings Concrete $2,000
Reo $150
Bricks Boral 1600 each $1 $1,120
Concrete Stumps 100 by 100 30 each $30 $900
Cement $200
Bearers 100 by 75 f8 hw 38 lm $10 $380
Floor Joists 100 by 50 f8 hw 180 lm $9 $1,620
Sub-Total $6,370
Framing Framing 90 by 35 220 lm $3 $660
Trusses 52 each $150 $7,800
Sub-Total $8,460
External Covering Cement Sheeting Harditex 80 sqm $20 $1,600
Render Render-it 540 kg $1 $540
Trims External Corners 6 each $5 $30
Paint Exterior 40 litre $15 $600
Sub-Total $2,770
Internal Cladding Plasterboard Gyprock 120 sqm $30 $3,600
Cornice Gyprock 60 lm $10 $600
Paint Interior 40 litre $15 $600
Insulation Roof 3.3 Batts 10 bags $40 $400
Insulation Walls 2.2 Batts 5 bags $30 $150
Attic Ladder 1 each $500 $500
Sub-Total $5,850
Electricals Pole RHS 75 by 75 5 lm $40 $200
Switch Box 1 each $450 $450
Sub-Total $650
Sub-Total $34,710

Add-in Materials
Windows Sliding windows 3 each $800 $2,400
Glass bricks 300 each $6 $1,800
Doors Front Door 1 each $400 $400
Tri-slide door 1 each $3,000 $3,000
Internal Doors 2 each $100 $200
Bi-fold door 1 each $250 $250
Electricals Fluoro Downlights 15 each $30 $450
Halogen Downlights 8 each $20 $160
Switches 20 each $20 $400
Kitchen Dishwasher 1 each $1,300 $1,300
Stove/Oven/Air 1 each $1,500 $1,500
Sink 1 each $350 $350
Taps 1 each $90 $90
Kitchen Island 1 each $750 $750
Washer/Dryer 1 each $1,800 $1,800
Pantry 1 each $500 $500
Fittings 1 set $400 $400
Cabinets 1 each $3,000 $3,000
Ensuite Toilet 1 each $300 $300
Shower 1 each $1,000 $1,000
Basin 1 each $500 $500
Taps 1 each $90 $90
Floor tiles 8 sqm $45 $360
Wall tiles 15 sqm $45 $675
Built-ins Bedroom 2 each $500 $1,000
Linen Press 1 each $500 $500
Ironing Centre 1 each $500 $500
Entertainment 1 each $500 $500
Sub-Total $24,175

Labour Brickie 1 total $2,500 $2,500
Plumbing 1 total $7,000 $7,000
Electricals 1 total $2,500 $2,500
Labouring 500 hours $75 $37,500
Pest 1 total $1,200 $1,200
Floor Sanding 1 total $300 $300
Kitchen 1 total $2,000 $2,000
Sub-Total $53,000

Sundries Licencing/Fees 1 $2,000 $2,000
Move Air Con 1 $500 $500
Rubbish Removal 4 $150 $600
Insurance 1 $2,000 $2,000
Sub-Total $5,100

Building Materials $34,710
Add-in Materials $24,175
Labour $53,000
Sundries $5,100
Fail Safe $23,397
TOTAL $140,382

[Clinton1]

Just posing the question.

If the reply was - I've got the skills needed to do the work, and I've participated in enough jobs to feel confident - Then it seems an easy choice.

Bin J said on another post:

The reason I ask is that my husband and I have been planning an extension / renovation for 3 years, have just got a quote back and our whole lives have been turned upside down! :eek: This being the first time we've built anything, so we've got nothing to compare prices to, except my dad (owner-builder extraordinare), where he can do everything for less than 1/2 the cost of everyone else . And since he doesn't live close to us, and he's in the middle of building his own house (again), using him is out of the question at the moment!

I have ASSumed that she is trying to achieve the extention and beat the price quoted.
I thought I'd throw in a question, so BinJ can put it into her decision process. I think that it is a fair question, and it was a question - if it appeared like an accusation, that wasn't meant.
Yes, there are lots of great OB's out there that achieve spectacular results, under budget. I've helped out a fair few mates that are O/B, and if they can have me work for them and still have the house pass inspection - they must be genius's!
I help out 'cause I am getting my experience for when I might go the O/B route.
Lots more stuff it up the first time due to lack of experience. I am sure that those that keep on eventually get better.
I thought the question was relevant when the person seeking opinions says that they may not be able to afford the professionals, and are deciding if they can do it cheaper, with little experience.
I may have read between the lines too much.

[Barry_White]

This is a touchy subject 90 replies in one day

[silentC]

Yeah and I wonder how many of those who replied have actually ever done it?

[echnidna]

Yeah and I wonder how many of those who replied have actually ever done it?

OK Kiddies you heard the man!
hands up those who have built a house or major reno.

Echnidna - YES (many)