Equipping my shop with Hand Tools

[BobL]

Mooncabbage

I'd snap up Derek's offer if I was you .

You will learn more from talking with and seeing Derek in 30 minutes than any other source of info I can think of.

[John Saxton]

I'm not sure where I'd find that sort of market in Perth. The only markets I know of are the kind which is just hipster for shops. I do have crosscut saws and rip saws, including 3 circular saws. I don't really have room in my workshop for a bench grinder, even if I had the money spare. I'll have to do my sharpening on an oilstone or sandpaper and glass. Not really sure what kind of sandpaper is used for that, I'd have thought it'd be too rough, but what do I know.

There used to be (I have'nt checked it for a long time) a place that always had quite a lot of used handtools as well as the odd electrical one in Gosnells in Lissiman St behind the shopping precinct and parallel to Albany Hwy.
It was a good place to fossic around in ,however whether it is still there I could'nt say.
Another piece of advice is to watch for the deceased auctions where tools are mentioned.
Take Derek up on his offer , you would not go amiss on his advice & instruction.
Cheers

[Mooncabbage]

Wow, I slept like a babby last night, and y'all posted a lot. Let me see if I can keep up.

For my marking gauge, the red cedar (which is really just a guess as the bunnies label long since disappeared) has not been laminated together yet, meaning I can cut the hole for my wedge roughly across several pieces BEFORE I attempt to laminate it. Ofcourse, I could just as easily use one of the lumps of Jarrah I have lying around, but they'd require a lot more cleaning up. As a general guide for my project I am using an article I downloaded from Popular Woodworking called "Mystery of the Marking Gauge".

Derek, I'm in Mount Lawley, but I think I could get to Rossmoyne on the train/bus etc. Seems like it's actually on my way to uni. It'd probably be easier if I had a license or a car, but I don't :P

Oh! And I bought a Disston backsaw off ebay for $18.50 inc postage. It was shiny, and it seems like it'll be more comfortable than the plastic handled backsaw I have now. When it arrives I'll let you know how it is.

[pmcgee]

Good link M-c.
Make an 18th-century Style Shop-made Marking Gauge

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp...king_Gauge.pdf

[Mooncabbage]

Yup, that's the one. Although the width of the head is only about 5cm, which seems a little small to me. It seems a bit small in a few other places too.

On an unrelated note, it's very difficult to use hand tools without a vice, and I don't have a vice. So far I've been making do with 2 F-clamps and 2 quick release pumpy clamp things, but it's not ideal. So some advice on vices, would be great.

Speaking of clamps, I've only got 2 smallish F-clamps, 2 quick release clamps, and a few small G clamps I bought years ago. New clamps are very expensive, especially when you consider you really want to buy them in pairs. Anyone know where I can get some cheaper clamps, particularly in larger sizes? Doesn't have to be fancy or easy to use, just functional. I'm considering making myself a nice big workbench, following the Paul Sellers series on same, but I'd need some fairly wide clamps for that. I'm not sure I could afford all the timber AND a half dozen clamps, at that point costs are starting to skyrocket.

Perhaps I should just look at constructing a smaller, less complex workbench?

[Bushmiller]

On an unrelated note, it's very difficult to use hand tools without a vice, and I don't have a vice.

You don't drink? Even on Australia Day? .

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

I'm considering making myself a nice big workbench, following the Paul Sellers series on same, but I'd need some fairly wide clamps for that. I'm not sure I could afford all the timber AND a half dozen clamps, at that point costs are starting to skyrocket.

Perhaps I should just look at constructing a smaller, less complex workbench?

Set aside about a week and troll though the workbench forum. You'll see the bold and the beautiful as well as those that originated under the bridge.

Again it is amazing the projects people can achieve with the merest basics. There are that many people who for years used an old door as their workbench (I'd go for a heavy old-fashioned style one. Perhaps off a derelict castle. Definitely not a hollow core from Bunnings ) and the smartest examples would have a sheet of plywood or hardboard covering the top, but that is stepping out a bit.

Ignore facetious comments. Look for a bench vice on ebay, garage sales etc..

Regards
Paul

[pmcgee]

We got a Bunnies cattle-dog today and it has a Trojan 6-chisel + stone + something else in a "mahogany case" for $20 ...

but I thought you might do better with the one next to it ... 4 x 6" Irwin clamps for $25

Paul

[Mooncabbage]

Damnit. My Bunnings was 4 chisels and the wet stone in a plastic case for $20. To think I could have had 6! In a Mahogany case! Clamps might be worth a shot, 6" is kind of short but for $25 it's hard to pass up. What I really need are big clamps, for doing edge to edge joints on boards.

Also I do drink, I spent the past few hours doing just that :P Got such a headache now ><

EDIT: Not really sure what I need from a bench honestly (except a vice!). I've seen a few different designs around but it's hard to properly assess their pros and cons. If I was to use my existing cabinet that I put wheels on, and simply attach a top, what sort of thickness should I use, of what material, and how far around the edge should the lip be? I know the max length of my bench is about 1.8m due to space restrictions, but with a decent thickness of ply wood I could probably put a decent lip on the top, attach a clamp to it etc. I'm just not sure what thickness it should be. I do have an old door, but it's frame and panel, so a bit bumpy for a decent bench.

[pmcgee]

I'm sure a door with some mdf sheet on top ... and/or plywood sheet ... could be a starter. Need some saw-horses for legs.

Somewhere I've seen someone using a length of wood - say pine - hole drilled nearish the end - and a short clamp used between the end of the job and the hole to make a bodged long clamp.

Ian I thought made some home-made clamps ... ? I'd try googling that for ideas.

Cheers,
Paul

[Robson Valley]

Gutless Grinder: I can think of several things to use it for. Much of that depends on the motor rpm speed. If the speed is 1750 or less, you can't go fast and therein lies some advantage = you run less risk of cooking anything.

Of equal importance is to learn about the availability of replacement wheels.
I interpret some posts in some threads as a desire for the grinder stones to last forever. Noble thought but it is expected that they will wear down, just like sandpaper.

1. Shaping, sharpening and repurposing tool edges. Take the entire end off a skew and make a carver's stop chisel (double bevel.)
2. Make carving tools out of junk metal saws, rusty plane blades, leaf springs.
3. With very, very good dust control, cut, carve and shape seashells, copper, aluminium & slate/stone for inlay.
4. With a very light touch, sharpen drill bits. Gotta get the angles correct.

I have a couple of stones on axles, cut off wheels and a few sanding drum things that I run in my little 8" drill press. .. . . I get what I want, 1100rpm
seems to be a good speed. Just don't ram the work into the wheel!

[IanW]

Mooncabbage, I think we need to nail one of your feet to the floor!

One step at a time, lad, one step at a time! For some unknown reason I thought you already had some sort of bench, & I guess most others did, as it wasn't mentioned in the 'essential tools' lists. Unless you plan on adopting the squat-on-the-floor & use your feet as clamps Asian woodworking technique (which I admire, but could never emulate!) some sort of bench would be a high priority, indeed. Benches and tool cupboards are things which a lifelong woodie makes several times over, so to me there is little point in starting out with a 'dream bench' or a magnificent tool cupboard. A fancy bench is a reasonably difficult project & best left til your skill set (& tool set) have expanded a little. You need a bench to build a bench like that. A heavy plank across a couple of trestles can be a start, but an undercarriage that can be braced against wracking is better. There are any number of ways to knock together something that will do the job for now. Within a year or so you will probably start on a semi-decent bench, and there are numerous ideas here & elsewhere for simple, useful & inexpensive benches.

Six inch clamps are certainly useful, my most-used clamps are in the 150-250mm (max opening) range. I have one or two of these:

Clamp rack1.jpg

But yes, you will want some bar clamps for joining wider boards. These come in a wide range of prices (& concommitent qualities) and fanciness, but good clamps can be made using some bought bits and some recycled hardwood for beams. Pipe clamps are one of the more economical solutions. Older styles are a PITA because they want to roll around on the bench, but the newer ones have a flat that makes them sit - buy only that type, if you go the pipe-clamp route, is my advice. For joining solid wood in furniture sizes, at least 4 bar clamps is desirable, though with good technique, 2 will do, particularly if you go for the scisor type.

Paul - I hesitate to encourage M-c to start rolling his own clamps at this stage of his career but if he's the resourceful type, it's another fun project, and you can make very serviceable handscrews using all-thread, for example. One of these days I mean to compile a 'how to' on all the various ways you can make clamps at home, but please, don't start holding your breath, anyone. I love my all-wood clamps, & threading wood is lots of fun, but to make clamps like mine needs a bit of gear which you don't really need at this stage.

I know, it's catch-22 all the time, M_c, to do this you need that, but for that you need something else...... A long journey takes a long time, but it starts with the first steps, and you've got the chance of a flying start with an offer of some help from Derek. You could not wish for a better mentor, just don't get too envious or too despondent when you see his armoury - remember he's been at this a while, and has been in paid work for a year or two...

Cheers,

[Mooncabbage]

Yeah, its good advice. If I seem like I'm rushing it's only because I go back to uni in a few weeks, which will drastically reduce my free time. So, I'm just trying to get all my complicated ducks in a row.

I'll have a look at that door. If it can be cut to the right sort of size to be attached to my bench top, I'll use it and a bit of ply. Otherwise I was thinking of gluing/screwing a couple of cm worth of ply board to the top. Might go for the thickest ply bunnies sells, which should be thick enough without me having to laminate anything to it. Seems like the thickest is like 18mm, which I have myself, so I'll have to see if I have it in the right size.

EDIT: How can you tell an older decent quality stanley plane, from a worn and used recent one? Or for that matter, a well restored older Stanley plane from a brand new one?

EDIT EDIT: Trying to get the rust off some of those files by electrolysis. Found myself a big 'ole steel thingy, so I'm using that as the anode. It was fairly rusty, and it was painted, so I feel pretty confident it's not stainless steel. I did sand it back to expose the metal though. What surprises me the most is just how slow the process is. When I did this sort of thing in high school it was always amazingly fast. Probably down to the regulated power supply I'm using, it's only like 13.8V/2A. I still wish it would go faster.

I'm surprised to read online that electrolysis CAN'T damage the item being cleaned. I would expect that if left too long it would possibly build up a deposit of iron from the anode, but then, remembering trying to do copper electroplating in high school it tends not to stick. So maybe thats the gunk you have to rub off. Either way I'll let you know how I go with it.

[Needles]

You don't drink? Even on Australia Day? .

Regards
Paul

One could argue that hand-tool addiction - er, I mean, acquisition - has certain vice-like qualities

[BobL]

I'm surprised to read online that electrolysis CAN'T damage the item being cleaned. I would expect that if left too long it would possibly build up a deposit of iron from the anode, but then, remembering trying to do copper electroplating in high school it tends not to stick. So maybe thats the gunk you have to rub off. Either way I'll let you know how I go with it.

In conventional home workshop electrolysis of rust there is no production of iron metal layer at the cathode. Fe+3 is reduced to Fe+2, or red oxide is reduced to black oxide, or very finely divide iron (also black) which do not adhere to the item and either falls or can be wiped off.

It is possible to completely wreck an item using electrolysis and that is connecting the item to the anode whereby it will become badly pitted and can eventually completely dissolve.