The bali 9 - is a death sentence appropriate?

[Sturdee]

They would have used 9 bullets and immediately eliminated the trial and due legal process.

I believe that if this happened in China the relatives of those shot would be sent the bill for the cost of the bullet.


Peter.

[Groggy]

The replies here are based on what has come through the media, who are in it for the money, and from officials in Indonesia who are endemically corrupt. We just don't know the truth.

That aside, lots of valid points have been made. To me, if they are actually guilty (as distinct from proven guilty) and not coerced by threats to self or family, then the law of the country should be applied.

To those who have a soft view, the drug thefts, burglaries, side - crimes, corruption etc caused by these people really do not make me want to pity them. A slap on the wrist that sees them go back looking for the 'easy bucks' puts the problem back on us. I pity their families, but this is outweighed by the pity I have for those who will be 'hooked' by their activities in the future, the crimes committed to pay for their product, the medical bills to manage the entire sordid deal.

Maybe we should freeze them and store them till a cure is found for lazy, get rich quick criminally inclined people with no regard for others.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but the DanPs of this world are not paid enough to have to wade through the mess created by this mob.

[Grunt]

BTW, a few years ago heroin did come down in price to about $15.00 a hit. And you're right, GM, there was a spate of overdoses.

The reason that people OD on heroin is because the potency of the drug is so variable. Sometimes its 5% pure others it's 50% pure, sometimes it's more. A junkie can inject the same volume of drug into their arm one time and get high and the next time get dead. If the manufacture and distribution was controlled in some way almost no one would die from heroin. Heroin isn't all that bad for you, except the fact that it's addictive and if you have too much you stop breathing. It is not a poison like tobacco and alcohol.

My choice would be to treat the drug problem as a health issue and not a law inforcement problem. It's been illegal for a very long time and people still use drugs. Prohibition plainly doesn't work.

Bring back the Taliban I say. While they were in power there was almost no heroin to be had

Pitty about the women who had acid chucked in their face for not wearing a veil and those who weren't pious enough who were put to death.

[Lucas]

Grunt

My choice would be to treat the drug problem as a health issue and not a law inforcement problem. It's been illegal for a very long time and people still use drugs. Prohibition plainly doesn't work

I have a idea that if people dealing heroine in Australia were put to death like in bali then it might just drop the amount of dealers

[ernknot]

It will never go away because there are too many officials and big business people involved. Otherwise how would it get in??
I mean to say, last time I came back from O/S and brought an extra bottle of booze in I was really given a hard time even though I said I would pay the duty. I got siht load of gibberish and crap etc. about border control and whatever. In the mean time I suspect a whole lot of drugs got through because I was being "entertained" by our officials. Why is it that people who work for the Immigration, Customs and security departments really belive we are all a bunch of dumb arses ( we ,the reviled public)
If we didn't travel they would be running efficiently and would not be hindered by those accursed travellers. Help - get me off my soap box!

[echnidna]

"Heroin isn't all that bad for you, except the fact that it's addictive and if you have too much you stop breathing. It is not a poison like tobacco"

Heroin alters thought processes making interaction with normal people hazardous.
How many tobacco users will kill you just to get their own way.

[Grunt]

How many tobacco users will kill you just to get their own way.

Maybe none but I'm not sure junkies are particularly prone to violence. They'll certainly steal from there own mothers to feed their habit. Alcohol alters the mind, the interactions drunk people can be hazardous, causes people to become violent and kill people.

I'm not saying that heroin is a good thing. I just think that we need to try to solve the problem in a different way. What we are doing isn't working. There is a great deal of hypocracy in the way we treat different drugs.

I have a idea that if people dealing heroine in Australia were put to death like in bali then it might just drop the amount of dealers

Probably not. They kill poachers in Kenya without trial and it doesn't stop them. In US they execute many murderers but there are still thousands of murders a year.

If we made smoking illegal we'd have a percentage of the smoking population that would be forced to steal and lie to get their fix. Some criminals would become very rich feeding the smokies habit.

[RETIRED]

Please keep to the topic heading.

[Zed]

the taliban in afganistan didnt stop opium one hoot, they made a very small pretence of destroying some small plots of opium for show but the fact is it was hard currency into the country. they didnt want thier people using smack but they really didnt have any issue with sending it out of the country or growing it.

it must be true I saw it on telly.

on the teev they showed one opium farmer who had a small amount of his plot run over by some army trucks - it was clearly obvious that the rest of his plot was ok - as was the blokes across the road. did anyone else see this on the tube ? I cant remember the show but i think it was foreign correspondant or something like that...

some of you mention that you feel for the families of the nine left behind - thats admirable and noble but the fact remains they did the wrong thing a number of times (some of 'em...) and they got caught red handed! now they have to pay. unfortunatly for them its a tad worse than a fine for speeding.

this case is only really intersting becuase of the scale and the timing - remember the warren fellows, paul hayward and william sinclair - they got done in thailand , then there was the blokes who got hung in 1988 (?) i singapore (?). ferkin idiots the lot of 'em. this happens all the time - if it was only one or 2 of 'em they'd barely get a mention.

What I find interesting is the 9 idiots are squealing like inbred farmers at a hog farm in kansas to try to save thier bacons... hopefully a few high rollers will get the chop out of this.

What I reckon happened is (remember this is conjecture and has no semblance to what actually happened) is that that lame ***** kingpin got his mates/family at the passport office to run off some spares and he's managed to get some geese to go on a freebie holiday for the price of being mules. IDIOTS!

the MOST interesting thing to me is the coke bust at sydney airport - is chaleppe corby innocent or what ???????? even blind freddy could see it now.... I hope the indoneseans see reason about her now - i truly pity her - shes an innocent in the wrong place - in my eyes its worse for her because some aussie bastard set her up but hasnt got the balls to let evertyone know - the shameless bastards will let her rot instead.

next time i fly I'll be making a little printout that says "I Zed hereby hand over my luggage to the airport weenies, they have inspected my bags in my presence when I checked in and this here signature of thiers on my bit of paper agrees theres no pot in it - if some shows up it wasnt me but someone using my bag..." I'll get them to sign it, I'll sign it and a random witness or a passing securoty guard - we'll all keep a copy and i'mm off the hook.

again - IDIOTS!

[Rusty]

IDIOTS!

Agreed. But it doesn't make it appropriate to kill them. Start killing stupid people and you'll end up with one person left, giving themselves an I.Q. test to decide what to do with the last bullet.

Lock 'em up, be glad that you've evolved past "an eye for an eye", and get on with the business of living as good a life as you can.

Rus.

[Gingermick]

I have a idea that if people dealing heroine in Australia were put to death like in bali then it might just drop the amount of dealers

It may dissuade a few for a bit then the price would go up because people want it and more dealers would come out.
You cannot stop this behavior. Try to convince people to stop using drugs. Its not going to happen. (As that would include alcohol, tobacco, coffee, etc) Hence my earlier post, either ban them all or legalise them all.
I know that most heroin addicts would prefer not to steal or rob. Much too much of a hassle but as its so expensive.
But having seen the pain withdrawl causes one is very conflicted. I don't condone stealing or anything like that at all. But you feel for someone in pain.
You may say that, "He caused it himself" (Withdrawl) but that is not human nature. If a very obese person has a heart attack we dont say "he doesn't deserve sympathy, he did it to himself" or do we?
If someone is hurt though their own stupidity do they deserve sympathy?

[DanP]

the taliban in afganistan didnt stop opium one hoot,

I can only speak for what I saw on the street and While the Taliban were in control there was very little heroin on the street and what little there was was cut to hell. ie: very little heroin, lots of other white powder and horse tranq. Most druggies were using Temazepam or similar drugs. All the OD's happened when the asians started importing high quality heroin and selling it in 80% pure caps. The druggies were so used to the heavily cut variety that they couldn't handle the pure stuff. My comments re the Taliban were a bit tongue in cheek so you lot can unknot your knickers.

Dan

[maglite]

Jeez, it seems that bleeding hearts and do gooders all have an opinion on what we should do with these peanuts.
Do anything you like as long as you dont kill them...lock them away, let them spend their time in a cushy OZ jail instead.
Seriously, where is the deterrent here?
Most states in Australia spend more money on trying to reform peanuts that get their kicks out of a needle than they do on mental health sufferers.
These people have a real claim to those dollars due to conditions beyond the own control....those other peanuts are in control of their own destiny and they do it for kicks in the first place and then realise that they are addicted.
Well, whoopty bloody do, not only do they and their bleeding heart social worker friends want the general public to sympathise with a condition that is there simply due to their own misadventure, they insist on a more lenient punishment because of it.
When are people in this country going to be asked or expected to be accountable for their actions?

[Grunt]

We spend sh!tloads on smokers health. We will be spending more and more on people with type 2 diabetes. People die from these things which are completely in there control to prevent. Stop smoking and eat less fat and more fruit and veg respectively. Let's stop spending money on the health of these individuals. Save Australia a bundle of tax dollars. Round them up and shove them in a detention centre and let them die. Or better still kill'em when they start to cost us money.

[Sturdee]

We will be spending more and more on people with type 2 diabetes. People die from these things which are completely in there control to prevent. Stop smoking and eat less fat and more fruit and veg respectively. Let's stop spending money on the health of these individuals.

Although of topic the above statement is rubbish.

For the record my wife has had type 1 diabetes for 30 years, my nephew has had type 1 for 5 years and my mother died from complications arising from her type 2 diabetes so I do know a little bit about it and unfortunately they still have no definate ideas what causes it.

Current research is that it may be by environtal triggers caused by certain vegetables in those genetically predisposed to it, but much more research is needed.

We should be spending more not less on them, may be from savings made by executing criminals rather than keeping them in jail. May not be a deterrent but a hell of a lot cheaper than keeping criminals alive when they, by their own actions, have forfeited that right.


Peter.