Bathroom Renovation Project

[juan]

Hi Doogie,

I have been labouring for the plasterer and did all the mixing of the render. Mix ratio he told me to use was 10 parts plastering sand to 2.5 parts cement. Have finished the first render coat and used exactly 1.05 ton of plastering sand and 11 bags of cement. This was considerably more than he estimated and was probably due to the thickness applied to get the walls true.

Tomorrow he will do the skim or setting coat to the top metre of wall which will not be tiled but rather painted. He also plans to do the outside surround of the window to tidy up where we cut it into the 300mm thick sandstone wall.

Yes getting near to the dreaded floor tiling. Have decided to take the plumbers advice against installing the stainless steel floor channel grates as they are a problem to keep clean and odour free apparently and cost like you said an arm and a leg ($1000 to be precise).

My current thinking is that I will relocate the floor trap that is in the middle of the room nearest the bath to a spot near the wall between the bath hob and the toilet pan. I will then screed the floor on a flat plane but sloping diagonally from corner to corner (ie from the door down to the relocated floor trap). That way I will have a perfectly flat floor to tile on yet have a fall to the trap (farthest from the door)in case there is a flood situation. Shower will have its own 20mm set down.
HOW DOES THIS SOUND TILERS OUT THERE?

[patty]

Looking

[patty]

whoops what happened there (previous blog) havent been on the site for a while the Missus was starting to think I was having an internet affair! ????ing paranoid aint they!I thought I would check in and see how thing are goin lookin good mate just a quick question did you use any lime when mixing the render? and how thick did you have to puti it on? Did he trowel it on to start with then screed it off setting up batten on the brick wall in stages? Have fun!

[juan]

No lime just 4 parts good plastering sand to 1 part cement. Make it a bit sloppy. Wet the wall a bit and she sticks like sheet to a blanket. He started at the bottom of the wall and put a strip about 200mm wide horizontal along the wall at the lowest point. He then put another strip about 2m up the wall and used a long straight edge and level to get the strips set up. Real easy. He then had the guide and just filled in between the plaster strips. No battens. Apply with a steel trowel off the hawk.

Then leave a while to set a bit and just use the wooden straight edge to wipe it off to the same depth as the strips. He then went to the top of the wall and set another strip there off the half finished wall. Then continued filling in the top gap and level off with a straight edge. Then used a wood float to get a nice smooth floated finish but roughed it up a little so it would absorb moisture later when applying the skim/set coat.

I would say the plaster on the wall would be about 15mm average but varying beween say 5mm in a few spots to 25mm in other low spots.

The secret is get good sand and make the mix on the weak side. Biggest mistake for us DIYers is making it too strong. We think it is better with more cement but the opposite is the case. Apparently it causes crazing later. Use 4:1 or 5:1 mix.

I would have no qualms about rendering a whole room now after watching the expert in action for 3 days. I would not try the set coat with hard finish plaster though that looks a little more of an acquired skill.

STILL HOPING FOR SOME FEEDBACK FROM TILERS ON MY IDEA FOR THE FLAT TILTED FLOOR AS DISCUSSED IN COUPLE OF POSTS BACK.

Attachment 57276

Cheers

[juan]

Hoping to pour the floor concrete on Friday. Have got the levels sorted and laid the fortecon film. Tomorrow I will put down the F62 reinforcing fabric and hopefully have a floor by the weekend.

Quite surprised how the room has dried out especially the bottoms of the walls that had rising damp. I have cleared the dampcourse all round and kept the window open. The soil has dried out a treat.
Moved one of the floor waste traps over between the bath hob and the toilet pan and will fall the floor to that waste outlet keeping it flat (but tilted). That should give a gumby DIY tiler like me a fighting chance of laying the floor tiles.

Attachment 57647

cheers

[bricks]

Hoping to pour the floor concrete on Friday. Have got the levels sorted and laid the fortecon film. Tomorrow I will put down the F62 reinforcing fabric and hopefully have a floor by the weekend.

Quite surprised how the room has dried out especially the bottoms of the walls that had rising damp. I have cleared the dampcourse all round and kept the window open. The soil has dried out a treat.
Moved one of the floor waste traps over between the bath hob and the toilet pan and will fall the floor to that waste outlet keeping it flat (but tilted). That should give a gumby DIY tiler like me a fighting chance of laying the floor tiles.

Attachment 57647

cheers

Who moved the floorwaste?, was it the plumber or you?

I'm hopeing that you did'nt just roll the top of the floorwaste over? The riser section must be straight up, and no longer than 600mm.

If the entire waste was moved, i'm hopeing the plumber did it with regard to the correct pipe lengths and falls etc.

If you did it, you'd better ring the plumber and get him to ok it.
A customer once did that exact same thing to me, I walked off the job that day.



If you m

[juan]

I do not touch things I do not understand. Done by the plumber at great expense

Cheers

[bricks]

As a plumber,

When i hear the words changed, plumber and great expense all in the same sentance it assures me that it was done properly.

By the way- that isn't an easy thing to do so im sure it would have cost a bit.

Cheers.

[wonderplumb]

As a plumber,

When i hear the words changed, plumber and great expense all in the same sentance it assures me that it was done properly.

By the way- that isn't an easy thing to do so im sure it would have cost a bit.

Cheers.

What he said

[juan]

With the 100mm reinforrced concrete floor poured my thoughts are turning to the hob for the bath. I was thinking it might be simpler to maybe build it out of Hebel blocks? We have decided on on a Stylus Classic 1700mm bath which is an island bath (oval shape).
Plumber has asked me to leave a big opening where he has to hook up the bath drain. Unsure whether it is best to tile the top of the hob before Plumber supports the bath in mud and connects it up??
Was thinking I could build a rear wall and two end walls of the hob to support the top. Then use hebel block on top and cut it out to shape of the bath so it can just drop in later. This would allow me to tile the top of the hob although not sure if that is possible given I cannot tile the front of the hob until bath is in and connected and front wall closed with hebel. I am not a tiler and think I have to cut the front edge tiles on the hob to 45 degrees to get a neat external join.
What is the recommended procedute to install an island bath in a brick hob? Any advice appreciated.

Cheers

[bricks]

Firstly have you thought of timber framing and villaboard? (would be much easier.)

Basically you need to......

-Build the framing (block or timber)
-Install the structure of the top
-Cut out hole for bath ( as small as posible)

My advice would be to use timber and villa board for the frame and top.

Install the bath.......
-Have it installed before you tile the hob, otherwise the tiling may be damaged ( baths are normally fairly heavy and awkward to manouver into bathrooms)
-Have the plumber install the bath with villaboard spacers under the lip of the bath, once it's done you can pull them out and slide your tiles underneath the bath to prevent unessesary detail cutting of tiles.
-Allow 10-15mm and leave room for a silicone seal, if the bath lip touches the tiles the silicone seal may break during temperature expansion and contraction due to hot water or seasons changing.

Enclose front of the hob.(block or villaboard.)
-you could, if using block construction, build all of the hob except for a 600mm-800mm section of the hob near the waste, this should allow the plumber enough access while providing strength for the top of the hob. (check with the plumber)

When tiling, use the corner dowel type tile edging on the edge of the hob to give a neat finish or make sure the top tiles extend the thickness of the front tiles to provide a clean factory made edge ( people will sit on the corner edge of the hob and you don't want cut bottoms)

----Just a note with round baths..........

-Make sure you leave at least a 100mm gap at any side ( otherwise you won't be able to clean there easily and the gap with hold soap scum and grime.)

-The lip of a round bath seems not to have the structural strength of a square one and tends to flex alot when you get in or out ( using the bath edge as support). To prevent this, use space invader foam under the lip ( get it in through the gap you leave to slide the tiles in) this will prevent flexing.
After you tile, you probably will seal the bath to the tiled top with silicone, if flexing occurs the silicone seal will quite quickly break and allow splash water into the bath hob.

-While making the hob be carefull not to allow it to have fall into any wall or corner, better to have forward fall to the floor in front ( splash water), but remember with tiles, anything out of level will show up like a big shiney neon sign.

As an after thought- have you thought about ventilation for under the bath? You need some sort of grill/hole to allow air circulation under the bath.

[juan]

Thanks a million for your help Bricks.

I have allowed exactly 100mm front and back of bath (between edge of bath and wall tile face and 125mm at the ends.
One of the end walls is a cavity wall which I built and I thought I would just knock a brick out of the wall inside the hob to access the cavity and give some sort of ventilation to the under hob area.

With everything being solid construction in the bathroom I just thought I would keep it that way and build the hob with blocks to give it a solid feel.

I will do like you suggest and put spacers along under the rim to facilitate sliding in the tiles later.
Like your idea of using space invader foam under the lip to give added support. Guess I would have to seal a bit between the bath side and the hob top to stop it all just exiting under the bath? Spoke to Stylus the bath manufacturer and they said flexing of the bath rim should not be a problem if the bath is properly seated in mortar bed and silicone sealed under the rim to the tiles.

Will take on board the issues you raised of having a level or slightly sloping tiled hob top and cleaning. Because it is not a shower bath I thought water spillage should be minimal but will of course occur when kids play in the bath.

Will investigate the corner dowel type tile edging (never heard of it as not a tiler) to get a professional finish on the bath hob front edge.

Cheers

[bricks]

If you have cut the hole in the hob tight enough ( within 20-30mm ) of the correct fit then the expanda foam will hold itself there - it doesn't weigh very much and doesnt normally drop of it's own wieght through smallish gaps.

And although venting through to the cavity is something i've not ever seen, I'm at a loss to think of a reason why you can't do it if it's an external wall???? ( think i've just learned something??)

[juan]

Have not touched the hob yet as I thought it might be best to do the ceiling first. Finish from the top down approach.

Have an IXL Silhouette to install.

Has anyone ever put one of these in a suspended ceiling??

The suspended ceiling is 400mm below the old lath and plaster ceiling. I rang IXL and they said to get a length of metal flue 235mm in diameter and to install that directly above the outlet on the fan with a clearance of 50mm between the fan and the flue end. I have cut the hole in the old ceiling and installed the flue as directed.

I am a bit concerned about having a gap of 50mm above the fan inside the gap between the ceilings!! I would have been more comfortable if they had advised me to attach a bit of flexible duct between the flue and the fan outlet.

WHY DO THEY INSIST ON A 50mm GAP?? Is it to get air flow of stop vibration or something?

Cheers

[Dirty Doogie]

Hi Juan, I've installed several different types of IXL bathroom fans but not the silhouette. In every case the instructions that came with the fan said to attach the flue directly to fan exhuast housing.

Where are you venting the flue at the other end - outside wall or into ceiling cavity (which I would have thought was a no no anyway)?

One system I set up had an intermediatte fan mechanism as well as a primary fan - in that case the instructions said to leave a 50 mm gap between the flue and the second fan unit.

With that system the secondary fan was very powerful and would have shaken the flue around. As it was the secondary fan had rubber mounts and dampening to stop rattles in the ceiling.

I'm not sure why they would recommend the 50 mm gap between the primary fan unit though but maybe the silhouette has a powerful fan .

Doog