Cheap Grandfather Clock, Darken Wood & Wooden Veneer

[auscab]

Not happy with the colour, I used Walnut in the Feast Watson Prooftint range. That stuff needs seriously thinning down, I ended up mixing 300mls Metho with 100ml of tint and it was still too dark when applied!. Anyway I found the Walnut didn't have enough warmth to it so I need to find a stain that's warmer. The Mahogany Feast Watson make is horrible and looks nothing like mahogany like Auscab said.

The Walnut and Mahogany are the same type of stain so they mix . A little Mahog mixed in may warm the Walnut up enough ?

In my spirit stains I keep Black handy for making a red stain more brown . And I use Bismark for adding red to brown to warm it up . Sometimes the black to kill red needs green added as well .
Magenta kills yellow off . To much and the job goes Magenta / purple .

A good strong change of colour can be had by water staining first ( Wet sand before that ) Then using spirit stains after that to swing it in . Then seal before going on .

Once again . The only way is testing . Having a full range of water colours , Reaction stain knowledge , a good range of thinner and spirit colours and all the oxide or pigments to mix . With those and a few boards with 20 tests done using a heat gun to dry . You can come up with a solution.

Rob

[EagerBeaver71]

The Walnut and Mahogany are the same type of stain so they mix . A little Mahog mixed in may warm the Walnut up enough ?

In my spirit stains I keep Black handy for making a red stain more brown . And I use Bismark for adding red to brown to warm it up . Sometimes the black to kill red needs green added as well .
Magenta kills yellow off . To much and the job goes Magenta / purple .

A good strong change of colour can be had by water staining first ( Wet sand before that ) Then using spirit stains after that to swing it in . Then seal before going on .

Once again . The only way is testing . Having a full range of water colours , Reaction stain knowledge , a good range of thinner and spirit colours and all the oxide or pigments to mix . With those and a few boards with 20 tests done using a heat gun to dry . You can come up with a solution.

Rob

Hi Rob,

Here's the Feast Watson Mahogany stain on some scrap 3mm ply. I'm a bit hesitant to use it to be honest, when its mixed 50-50 with metho it almost looks pink to me, is that normal?. On the subject of my light sanding efforts today. Should I be worried about some of the stain still remaining in the corners and beading?.

IMG_6643.jpg

[auscab]

IMG_6590a.jpg
You had that above

And you want this below
IMG_6595a.jpgIMG_6633a.jpgIMG_6634a.jpg

The Mahogany sample below bottom left is terrible . I was saying you could just use a little to add to the others . Hardly enough to notice the Magenta colour . I dont think you need it though , Those three colours at the bottom of your test strip which I enlarged look pretty good for a base colour.
IMG_6643a.jpgIMG_6643b.jpg

You have wiped them on Pine veneer . The pine will give a more blotchy look . It doesn't soak up stain evenly . Your beech should be better except end grain possibly .

Try sealing in those test stains then polishing with shellac . If your were using flake or button shellac the amber colour will massively help you out adding rich amber warmth over that stain . Anything else wont do that as well . A mix of flake / button and The blonde sold here , the U-Beaut stuff, is a way of steering the effect shellac has on a colour job . If it needs more adjusting or shading then it can be done before to much shellac goes on by colouring the shellac.

Do you know anything about applying shellac with brush then a rubber ? boding up with rubber and finishing off with oil ? In general . French polishing ? Cause that's a separate subject on its own . Not one I want to try and explain . Been there done that . Its too long and hard . Real easy to do once you know . There is supposedly a book on it produced here by the forum.

You could either study that ,or go down the path of brush coat , then fine steel wool and wax. Nowhere as good as the real deal .

[EagerBeaver71]

Try sealing in those test stains then polishing with shellac . If your were using flake or button shellac the amber colour will massively help you out adding rich amber warmth over that stain . Anything else wont do that as well . A mix of flake / button and The blonde sold here , the U-Beaut stuff, is a way of steering the effect shellac has on a colour job . If it needs more adjusting or shading then it can be done before to much shellac goes on by colouring the shellac.

Just to be sure, I seal the stains in with sanding sealer yeah, not shellac?. I think the amber colour is whats missing. I'm not familiar with shellac as a medium so had no idea of its colour, I'm learning alot!. Have you got a link to the shellac I need to buy?.

Do you know anything about applying shellac with brush then a rubber ? boding up with rubber and finishing off with oil ? In general . French polishing ? Cause that's a separate subject on its own . Not one I want to try and explain . Been there done that . Its too long and hard . Real easy to do once you know . There is supposedly a book on it produced here by the forum.

I need to educate myself. I'll try and hunt down the book. With some of the stain still remaining on the clock case, do I need to get rid of that stain left in the corners or is it ok just to leave?.

Really appreciate all your help Rob.

[auscab]

Just to be sure, I seal the stains in with sanding sealer yeah, not shellac?. I think the amber colour is whats missing. I'm not familiar with shellac as a medium so had no idea of its colour, I'm learning alot!. Have you got a link to the shellac I need to buy?.

Seal stains in with the sanding sealer. Do full test panels with stain, sealer, shellac and what ever you know to see if you can get what you want . Sand the test panels first. Use a heat gun to speed up drying times . Or the sun if you don't have one .


Bunnings have the 1 kg flake at $90 .

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HARD SHELLAC - New improved formula finish.

SHELLAC FLAKES and FRENCH POLISH

You need the two u-beaut items . You then have an orange flake and a bleached or Blonde shellac to play with.

I need to educate myself. I'll try and hunt down the book. With some of the stain still remaining on the clock case, do I need to get rid of that stain left in the corners or is it ok just to leave?.

Really appreciate all your help Rob.

No probs . You decide the above last question based on whether you want to see it or not .

Here's a link to the book . Ive never seen it The guys around here rave about it though .

A Polishers Handbook

[EagerBeaver71]

Bunnings have the 1 kg flake at $90

Bunnings have made enough out of me I think, I'll get the brand off here which is cheaper and probably better in all honesty!.

Quick rant: Why is it that Bunnings have no competition in regard to huge warehouse DIY stores?, when I lived in the UK we had 3 major warehouse DIY stores all competing with one another and the selection was huge, every major brand from UK/US. Over here you are limited to brands/items they stock which rake in the most cash for these greedy selfish people and alot of the time its shoddy quality items they stock. Sorry, you can open your eyes again now.

[EagerBeaver71]

Hi Rob,

I'm going to put an order together for the items you suggested. Is there anything else I might need that you can recommend?. I'm having some issues with Timbermate. I noticed the stain gets sucked into the filler turning it almost black. Do you you recommend this stuff or is there something better I can get from here or elsewhere, or maybe I'm not using it correctly?.

[auscab]

Bunnings have made enough out of me I think, I'll get the brand off here which is cheaper and probably better in all honesty!.

Quick rant: Why is it that Bunnings have no competition in regard to huge warehouse DIY stores?, when I lived in the UK we had 3 major warehouse DIY stores all competing with one another and the selection was huge, every major brand from UK/US. Over here you are limited to brands/items they stock which rake in the most cash for these greedy selfish people and alot of the time its shoddy quality items they stock. Sorry, you can open your eyes again now.

We had Masters for a while . They held less stock and thought we'd like the pretty organised look .
Pretty sure they were cheaper at a lot of stuff ? I know glue was . We didn't shop there enough .

Rob

[auscab]

Hi Rob,

I'm going to put an order together for the items you suggested. Is there anything else I might need that you can recommend?. I'm having some issues with Timbermate. I noticed the stain gets sucked into the filler turning it almost black. Do you you recommend this stuff or is there something better I can get from here or elsewhere, or maybe I'm not using it correctly?.

Metho for your shellac.

Plasti bond for quality filling or Agnews for something similar but better than Timbermate

Search - Our range | Bunnings Warehouse

Search - Our range | Bunnings Warehouse

Oxide or pigment colours to colour Bog or shellac.

Some good ones would be a Black , Dark Brown, red lighter Brown ( Burnt sienna colour), Red , Yellow and white .
Im surprised to see White there . Not sure if its titanium white . The good one or not ? Ill be trying some next time I go .

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Spirit colours to mix with Bog or shellac

http://www.gbrownantiques.com.au/pdf...%20Catalog.pdf

The ones to ask about, some not listed, are . Bismark , Spirit Black . Both very handy .

Good to have but hardly used
Green , Magenta , Yellow . Sometimes used. When I do need them they can be a life saver!! A matchbox full could last a lifetime though .

[auscab]

Plasti bond is for filling under surfaces that are seen . Under the polish job or up level with the polished surface when its repair work .

Agnews is for filling under where things are not seen . like a knotty split table top on the under side where quality wood patches may have been used on top and the under side is still knotty and split . It works under polish jobs as well . There is a trick to using it though . How to get it flat after it dries.

Timbermate is for the rubbish bin . It works but why limit yourself to a pre coloured tub of s++t?

A raw filler that works when water is added and a range of colours so you can make up any thing you want makes better sense. . It'll sit there ready for ever and not go of as well .

[EagerBeaver71]

Timbermate is for the rubbish bin . It works but why limit yourself to a pre coloured tub of s++t?.

You know I've been saying this for a long time!, when I first came to Australia from the UK, everyone raved on how great timbermate was blah blah blah, my wife used it all her life for one DIY job or another. When I first tried it I thought, holy cr*p is this all I have to fill holes in timber for the rest of my life?. Against my wifes wishes I bought some bog instead.

Rob, You have just confirmed my judgement in these matters is much better than the wifes!

[EagerBeaver71]

Some more test samples, this time with varnish finish over the top just to see what it looks like. I think the closest one I can see is the Jarrah, @auscab or do you think its a little bit too red?.

IMG_6658.jpgIMG_6659.jpgIMG_6660.jpgIMG_6661.jpg

[EagerBeaver71]

Would I be better off wiping on the stain or using my compressor & HVLP spray gun?, whats the difference?

[auscab]

Did you go buy all that ? Its a good range .

Yes the Jarrah looks dead on but consider how much your putting on over that to finish it . If your doing to the same level as that test and that's it then fine do that .

Spraying stain is fast but you need a good mask, through ventilation , a fan or wind ? Space . You don't want to be smelling anything . And you will go through twice as much .

With a rag and one glove You can wipe it on and maybe go weaker on the end grain if its needed . Have a can of thinner or metho ready to wash out stain from end grain if its needed . Fine tune it and detail it by rubbing some out in places and you go down the path of a finish that will look better.

Here's a secret.
A real good polish job with lots of character and variation but looking the right colour is Exactly The Same to a painting that an artist does on a canvas.

Every detail the artist wants has to be put there to make the image He/She wants.

So one wipe of colour , one wipe of sealer or two . Three wipes of shellac , finish , wax . looks dead boring ! Pretty much what most people do .

If you shade the stain in and out where its needed You can get a better look. What I do sometimes is , use three different stains blended in to one another across the surfaces. Mix three that are similar but different . After sealing Apply later coloured finished half way through , then wipeing them off so they stay in the cracks and crevices of mouldings. Then head towards finishing . Your going to be getting a more interesting look . The more you do the better it gets . If your going in the right direction or taking the right path.

I had to teach myself that path . And a typical quality patinated finish has at least three reaction stains before the three blended spirit stains , six inter layered effects at least , three patina effects then finishing and waxing .
Sometimes all that gets done and the whole lot gets washed off cause I got it wrong and I couldnt fix it .
sometimes that's the best thing that could have happened because the second attempt comes up way better when I know where I went wrong .

On quality from new complex colour work .
The strange thing is I know the fine details of what I just mentioned in above chapter but at the start of every job Im lost! Every time completely Lost .
Ive got to get into it and start and work before I get a feel for where its going . Try things , wipe off mistakes . Once it gets going I hit a point where I feel good with it then a point I know Ive got it . That "got it" part may be half way or two thirds through .

So you have to play with it and be prepared to do it two or three times and you can get a much better result that a one off go . For sure !

[EagerBeaver71]

Did you go buy all that ? Its a good range .

If you enlarge the photo's you will see I made 3 shades with each colour. The colours I have are Jarrah, Elm, Teak Brown, Oak, Walnut, Baltic Oak.

Spraying stain is fast but you need a good mask, through ventilation , a fan or wind ? Space . You don't want to be smelling anything . And you will go through twice as much .

I got the mask, pretty much like a 1942's gas mask kind of thing!. Does spraying have less of an effect on bringing the grain out?.

With a rag and one glove You can wipe it on and maybe go weaker on the end grain if its needed . Have a can of thinner or metho ready to wash out stain from end grain if its needed . Fine tune it and detail it by rubbing some out in places and you go down the path of a finish that will look better.

Much prefer to do it this way, only concern is because of my lack of experience is the lap marks and stain not being even in parts it should be.

Here's a secret.
A real good polish job with lots of character and variation but looking the right colour is Exactly The Same to a painting that an artist does on a canvas.

Every detail the artist wants has to be put there to make the image He/She wants.

So one wipe of colour , one wipe of sealer or two . Three wipes of shellac , finish , wax . looks dead boring ! Pretty much what most people do .

If you shade the stain in and out where its needed You can get a better look. What I do sometimes is , use three different stains blended in to one another across the surfaces. Mix three that are similar but different . After sealing Apply later coloured finished half way through , then wipeing them off so they stay in the cracks and crevices of mouldings. Then head towards finishing . Your going to be getting a more interesting look . The more you do the better it gets . If your going in the right direction or taking the right path.

I had to teach myself that path . And a typical quality patinated finish has at least three reaction stains before the three blended spirit stains , six inter layered effects at least , three patina effects then finishing and waxing .
Sometimes all that gets done and the whole lot gets washed off cause I got it wrong and I couldnt fix it .
sometimes that's the best thing that could have happened because the second attempt comes up way better when I know where I went wrong .

On quality from new complex colour work .
The strange thing is I know the fine details of what I just mentioned in above chapter but at the start of every job Im lost! Every time completely Lost .
Ive got to get into it and start and work before I get a feel for where its going . Try things , wipe off mistakes . Once it gets going I hit a point where I feel good with it then a point I know Ive got it . That "got it" part may be half way or two thirds through .

So you have to play with it and be prepared to do it two or three times and you can get a much better result that a one off go . For sure !

Amazing insight into the artistry!.