Language! (words change meaning)

[Bushmiller]

Furphy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So a bit like Stephen Fry's QI. Nobody really knows.......

Regards
Paul

[pmcgee]

"Scuttlebutt has a similar etymology, a scuttlebutt originally being a cask of drinking water on a ship."

"Did naat know dat." - Kendra - Buffy the Vampire Slayer.


The Furphy Water Cart

Water Cart Ends

From 1920 the list of products changed and a Pitman's shorthand inscription appeared.
The translation read "Water is a gift from God, but beer is a concoction of the Devil, don't drink beer".

[Bushmiller]

Arthur

Which bit were you struggling with?

Furphy's_Farm_Water_Cart.jpg

You should be able to enlarge the pic several times .

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

Paul has explained all. My water cart had a very innocuous inscription.

I like the fire and brimstone version; Echoes of the ancient cry of the Salvos. "the devil drink."

Regards
Paul

[artme]

An attack of dyslexia!! I meant the BACK of the cart!!

[chambezio]

To Paul and Arthur. The following is straight out my grey haired noggin so lets see if I can remember the story correctly (I know someone will jump in if I get it wrong).
The Furphy Company used to make agricultural implements. They made a water cart that had cast iron round ends and galvanised sheet metal to form the tank. They were fixed to a very basic cart with cast iron wheels on a simple steel chassis. The army bought some to carry water for the troops during World War I. The carts would usually employ a horse and a man to deliver the water to the troops/army camp. The blokes who would do the runs with the tanks and horse would see a lot more of what was going on than the average "crunchy" (Australian soldier). These blokes would be often asked what was happening in different areas so they were the "go to blokes" to find out what was happening. So human nature being what it is, made these fellows bearers of news which could be right or embellished with a blokes own interpretation of what was happening. So a lot of the time the news these fellows would spread may or may not have been correct so was born "The Furphy"- inaccurate tale of what was happening

On these cast iron ends was a lot of writing in strange languages (I think that is right) but what was legible was a little ditty which read...
Good Better Best,
May you never rest
Until your good is better
And your better best

Here endth the lesson (or have I told a Phurphy?)

[artme]

Yep. Knew that Rod!!

As far as I know the inscription on the back of he tank - the tap end- is done in Pitman shorthand
and says something about the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.
I may be wrong. It could be Arabic, Elvish or Silurian backhand that speaks of something else.

When I was living at Leeton theses Furphy carts often came up at auctions and were very popular
with the bidders. I think many ended up as garden ornaments.

[Big Shed]

On these cast iron ends was a lot of writing in strange languages (I think that is right) but what was legible was a little ditty which read...
Good Better Best,
May you never rest
Until your good is better
And your better best

Here endth the lesson (or have I told a Phurphy?)

This has been used by one of our forum members, Penturner, as his signature for quite some time.

[pmcgee]

I was tempted to use the term 'repudiate' in terms of a debt.

[Latin repudire, repudit-, from repudium, divorce.]

Hmmm ... divorce, hey?

Repudium ... occurs in divorce but one source says that isn't the true sense.

The Principles of Roman Law and Their Relation to Modern Law - William Livesey Burdick - Google Books

"Repudium meant originally ... the breaking of an engagement to marry, while divortium was more appropriately applied to the dissolution of a marriage since the word signifies that the parties go their separate ways."

Doesn't everyone need the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Roman Law, Volume 43 By Adolf Berger?
Encyclopedic Dictionary of Roman Law - Adolf Berger - Google Books

"A unilateral breaking up of a betrothal. The term refers also to the dissolution of a marriage existing made by one of the spouses either by an oral declaration before witnesses, by a letter, or through the intermediary of a messenger (per nuntium) who transmitted to the other party the wish that the marriage be solved."

Solved? interesting.

[Middle English solven, to loosen, from Latin solvere]

[Middle English dissolven, from Latin dissolvere : dis-, dis- + solvere, to release]

More interesting ... Loosened vs Released.

- - - - - -

In contrast ... Divortium ... Encyclopedic Dictionary of Roman Law - Adolf Berger - Google Books

"A divorce. It was achieved without formalities, simply by a definitive cessation of the common life of the consorts, initiated by common agreement or by one of them, thereby proving that there was no longer any affectio maritalis between the spouses. Therefore, a temporary abandonment of the common dwelling by the wife in a state of excitement (per calorem) was not considered a divortium.

If the conclusion of a marriage was accompanied by a conventio in manum (*) the dissolution of such agreement had to be accomplished by a contrary act.

Usually however a unilateral declaration by the divorcing spouse (repudium) followed the separation, either by writing (per epistulam) - the letter had to be signed by seven witnesses - or orally, directly or indirectly by a messenger (per nuntium)."

- - - - - -
(*) Marriage
There were two types of marriage.
The more conventional -and more ancient form - was a marriage by which the woman became a member of the husband's family. She lost her family rights of inheritance of her old family and gained them with her new one. She now was subject to the authority of her husband. This was the traditional form of marriage, (conventio in manum).
Alternatively there was the free marriage (sine manu). In this arrangement the wife remained a member of her original family. She stayed under the authority of her father and kept her family rights of inheritance with her old family, though didn't gain any with the new family.
This was not a traditional form of marriage and it could simply be annulled by the separation of the couple. It was sufficient for the husband to tell his wife, either in person, or by letter, or by sending a slave that the marriage was at an end, for the free marriage to annulled.
However, the free marriage was generally conducted by marriages between noble households, and hence it was unlikely that one side would so openly insult the other. Far more the separation would be conducted upon agreement of both sides.

[artme]

Mate where do you get all this info?? Do you own a number of books? Do you have access to a very good
library? How much do you glean from Google searches?

AND.. Why are you interested in such esoteric matters???

[pmcgee]

The library part is easy ... all Google Hopefully all the links are there. Me ... I don't know anything

Words and language carry their history along with them, which has always been interesting - and adds to or explains their meaning/s.

Professor Kate Burridge (Can We Help? - KATE BURRIDGE) used to be on the local ABC in the afternoons and she had great knowledge about words and grammar.

People would ring in to complain about peoples' alleged misuse of grammar - and often she would be telling them, (eg) Well ... actually ... that used be the rule in the 1700s ... and is still the case with THIS word and THIS one and THIS one.

For example, if I have it right, people (including me) don't like the US spelling of "color", "labor", "realize" ... but she said that the US english separated from English at an early point, and preserves an early sense whereas English has moved on and intermingled in different ways.

At some stage there was a movement in the US to simplify and regularise (s!) spelling and make it more logical ... hence their "color", "flavor".

I wish I had those conversations recorded ... she had great knowledge and examples on tap ...

Cheers,
Paul

[artme]

Thanks for the answer.

I have always had an interest in words and wish I had been able to learn Latin at school.
I may not have liked it at that stage but it would have been very helpful.

The point about US English separating at an early stage is interesting. This is why the Americans
use diaper as opposed to our nappy. It is the reason they get offended when the word bugger is
used, no matter the context.

We were always encouraged to use the dictionary as kids. Even though both parents had little or
no education past primary school, they were both intelligent and read voraciously.Dad owned a
large Collins dictionary with a hard red cover. It was well used!!! I received a Nuttall dictionary of
Synonyms and antonyms as a prize in high school. I have a collection of several dictionaries that
receive regular attention.

I remember Kate Burridge. I saw her on TV a couple of times and heard her on the radio now and then.

[chambezio]

Speaking of dictionaries and parents.....Dad had a large Oxford dictionary that he let us kids use when we were old enough to "respect" the book. I don't know how old I was but I looked up radar and low and behold...it wasn't there....I then went to the front of the book and found it was printed in 1940! Radar would have been on the Secret Invention list

[Sturdee]

At some stage there was a movement in the US to simplify and regularise (s!) spelling and make it more logical ... hence their "color", "flavor".

Cheers,
Paul

Wasn't that done by Webster with his famous dictionary. I believe he wanted to not only standardize the language but also to democratize it, away from the poshy aristocracy and back to the common usage of ordinary workers.


Peter.

[artme]

Wasn't that done by Webster with his famous dictionary. I believe he wanted to not only standardize the language but also to democratize it, away from the poshy aristocracy and back to the common usage of ordinary workers.


Peter.

I think you are right Peter.

There has been a slight move towards simplified spelling in other English speaking countries.
I just wish the process was a bit quicker. Remember when program was spelt programme?
something to do with French influences IIRC.

If the ALP had its way all words ending in our would be cut to or. Although the spell checker
does that anyway!! Perhaps that's one idea for an election campaign! Now there is a silly
spelling - campaign.

Take ph for f. Absolutely no logical reason for this.

Some spellings seem odd but are influenced by the base word. Sign, signal, insignia being
a good example.