Equipping my shop with Hand Tools

[IanW]

More specifically, besides the sharpening of chisels, what might I use a bench grinder for? You mention the fabrication of tools, could you elaborate and give some examples? I'm interested to know, as something might sound fun. I actually looked at making my own saws, but I think I'll put that off for now.

OK, you did ask. How about:

Pair 3_32 chisels.jpg
(a couple of chisels made from a piece of 3/32" HSS. One is a lock-mortice chisel for fine locks, the other is a bevel-edge. Much delicate grinding involved, but relatively safe because high-speed steel can tolerate much higher temperaturess without altering its temper.)

A pair of marking gauges: DF gauges.jpg
The cutter for the cutting gauge is formed on a grinder & finished ith a diamond file & stoning. The pin for the cutting gauge is chucked in a battery drill & spun against the grinding wheel.

Scratch-awls made from old files: Scratch awls red.jpg

A marking knife from a used hacksaw blade and a bit of an old cartridge for a ferrule: Scribing knife red.jpg

I know you said you weren't interested in making saws, but the grinder is very handy for rough-shaping saw blades like this 'interpretation' of a Dissston 9 and (right) a Disston 8 half-back:

Irwin reborn12tpi Lancewood red.jpg D8 Bull oak.jpg

Will that do for starters?
Cheers,

[Bushmiller]

ALSO ... Do you all think this is right??????? Supercheap have a 75mm grinder for $32

3" Grinder ... with an Alox wheel by the look ...

Rockwell Bench Grinder - 75mm - Supercheap Auto Australia

Paul

I saw that and the 50W motor and thought it must be a mistake: That it should be 500W.

Then I realised that the 75mm wheels refer to the diametre not the thickness. I'm not quite sure what you would use that for......sharpening TIG welder tips, fishing hooks, sewing machine needles.....

I think you'd be there a long time with a 50mm firmer chisel not to mention a hollow grind resembling a cane hook!

Regards
Paul

[Mooncabbage]

OK, you did ask. How about:

Pair 3_32 chisels.jpg
(a couple of chisels made from a piece of 3/32" HSS. One is a lock-mortice chisel for fine locks, the other is a bevel-edge. Much delicate grinding involved, but relatively safe because high-speed steel can tolerate much higher temperaturess without altering its temper.)

A pair of marking gauges: DF gauges.jpg
The cutter for the cutting gauge is formed on a grinder & finished ith a diamond file & stoning. The pin for the cutting gauge is chucked in a battery drill & spun against the grinding wheel.

Scratch-awls made from old files: Scratch awls red.jpg

A marking knife from a used hacksaw blade and a bit of an old cartridge for a ferrule: Scribing knife red.jpg

I know you said you weren't interested in making saws, but the grinder is very handy for rough-shaping saw blades like this 'interpretation' of a Dissston 9 and (right) a Disston 8 half-back:

Irwin reborn12tpi Lancewood red.jpg D8 Bull oak.jpg

Will that do for starters?
Cheers,

Now that's EXACTLY what I wanted to see. And I do want to make my own saws, just not right yet. I think I probably need to use hand saws some more before I know what I want in one. I will definitely be attempting it at some point though.

A marking gauge is something I actually plan on making very soon. I had a broken drill bit, but it rolled off my bench into the bin bag and I couldn't find it again. I have about 100000000000 inherited drill bits though, what would you recommend for the cutter? Like a 3mm HSS bit or something? Anyway, maybe I will look at picking one up sooner rather than later. Gotta get my shop cleaned up some more first though.

[IanW]

I can see the argument about the roundover with sandpaper, IF it's used improperly, particularly larger grits. Very fine grit sandpaper is so thin, that properly glued to glass with a spray adhesive, it should have negligible compressibility or deviation from the flat. Certainly no more than a stone.

It's all relative, M_c. You will get more deviation with any compressible mediumthan with a stone , I will bet my crown jewels on that. You will certainly get less rounding with thin and stable backings, but you will still get more than with a stone. Whether it matters or not is the isssue - in many cases, it doesn't, and in some it does. Where the line is drawn is a personal choice.

... taking the effort to sharpen BOTH sides of the chisel should help make a finer point, as it's significantly harder to round over when lapping the flat face of the chisel. My personal feeling is you should keep the flat face of a bench chisel atleast as well cared for as the point and the bevel, as that's the face that needs to slip past cut edges when paring etc. It just makes sense, from a physics PoV to keep it as smooth as possible.

It is the back edge that I'm talking about. Slightly rounding the bevel edge is neither here nor there. You are absolutely correct in that the back needs the same attention to detail as the front. Keeping that edge as close as posssible to perfectly flat matters a whole lot for a paring chisel, or something you want to chop straight edges with, like a dovetailing chisel, and the aforesaid paring chisel.

... With thicker grits the rounding effect is less important, because as you work down the grits, you'll be shrinking that bevel anyway....

Well, not really. The coarser grits remove more metal quickly, right? That means they round over more. Finer grits remove much less materiaal, so you have to work a lot harder to remove that rounding. On the bevel side, you caan simply raise the chisel a bit more & deal with it that way. Not so on the back - if you round that off with the coarsser grits, you are promoting a good case of RSI for yourself to bring it back to flat.

As I say, if you are happy with the results you are getting, stick with it for now. There are lots of things to learn, as Robson Valley says, and as long as your tools are working satisfactorily, it's better to get going on some projects. Both your sharpening skills & your tool skills will improve, and I will bet London to a brick that you will go through stages where you find that what you believed to be sharp a while ago, is actually not sharp enough by your new standards. That's all good & as it should be - you don't have forty two gears on a bike & expect to staart off in top gear every time (or do you? )

Cheers,

[Mooncabbage]

That's pretty much where I'm at. Ofcourse I'm frustrated at the moment as I have a few projects I'd really like to start and I haven't got anything like the tools I need to go :P

I'm in the middle of restoring the top of my triton workbench top, and I'm being very frustrated with the enamel paint I'm using. Even after what should have been more than adequate curing time, it's not nearly as hard as I'd hoped. I also have to do a touch up coat for a few sections, which means another week waiting for the paint to cure properly. Now, I've got to cut some awkward angle joints for one of my projects, and there is no way around it. I haven't got any way to do it accurately though, as my squares seem pretty consistently not square. It'd help if I had a surface I knew for 100% sure was perfectly straight, but I haven't found one yet. I might have a go using my Scary Sharp glass, but I'm pretty sure it's only going to tell me what I already know, which is that my inherited try square and purchased combination square are both useless. Also still don't have any planes, which is a bit of a bummer, but hopefully that'll be sorted in a week or two.

I guess I could try some really clever high school geometry and a straight edge to try to calculate the angles I need, but that really seems a bit medieval :P

So in the mean time, I suppose it's back to sharpening chisels.

[Bushmiller]

It never hurts to be informed about your options though :P Actually I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick with Scary Sharp for now, I'm mostly wondering if there are other cool things I can use a tiny underpowered grinder for, like tool making or whatever.

Mooncabbage

I know Ian got in first (so much for the diplomacy ) and it's a shame really as you should aspire to higher things as time progresses and I am going to drag things back into the mire.

If Ian's creations are the cordon bleu of woodworking tools, I'd like to welcome you to the bush barby .


Tools 004.jpgchisels 001.jpgchisels 002.jpgchisels 003.jpgTools 002.jpgTools 003.jpg

They have many similarities with Ian's tools .

1. The cost of materials is disproportionate to the time expended in making them.
2. He keeps his under wraps to protect them. I keep mine under wraps sto avoid embarrassment.
3. His work well. Well, mine work too
4. His are beautiful. Mine are..... .
5. Ian buys new HSS while mine had a previous life cushioning a truck from the imperfections left in our roads.

Whether you decide to be a pop-star or a bathroom wailer you will need a grinder for all these things.

Regards
Paul

PS. Rain's getting bad in Brissy I see. I'll bet Ian's glad he is up high. Hope other forumites are good.

[IanW]

A marking gauge is something I actually plan on making very soon. I had a broken drill bit, but it rolled off my bench into the bin bag and I couldn't find it again. I have about 100000000000 inherited drill bits though, what would you recommend for the cutter? Like a 3mm HSS bit or something? Anyway, maybe I will look at picking one up sooner rather than later. Gotta get my shop cleaned up some more first though.

Hmmm, small parts joining the shavings on the floor is not a good thing, is it? In my shed, small things also like to hide under the litter on my bench, then come out when my frustration level has reached boiling point, pretending they've been there all along. It's just to annoy me!

A marking gauge (or two, or three) is an excellent early project - they are essential tools, and having two or three or even more is no hardship, believe me. There are several different ways of locking the stock (or fence) to the shaft (or beam). The simplest is a captive wedge, which can be inserted along the top of the shaft or sideways through the stock (someone posted a diagram of this type recently - I'll see if I can find it & add the url 'cos it's quite nifty & very easy to make. Darn, why can you never find what you want in a hurry? If you just type 'marking gauge' & 'wedgei into search it will find plenty of food for thought for you). They are just as easy to adjust as one using a thumb screw. Any way, it's a fun project, & it's even worth buying a little piece of fancy wood & making pretty ones, (p'raps after you make one prototype from scrap ).

Broken drills make excellent pins & cutters. Doesn't really matter what size, just choose a finer one around 2.5mm or less, to give it a fine look, but since you will grind it to a point, the actual starting diameter isn't all that critical. If there is still a bit of 'thread' on it, grind it off so that you have just the round part remaaining. Chuck that in your battery drill so that the end that was originally closest to the cutting point is out, & spin it against one of your coarse grits to put a nice tapered point on it - you can then poish it as much as you please on finer grits or a stone. The reason I advise using the end closer to the cutting edge is that the shaft of twist drills issn't as haard as the tip - it's a bit softer in the solid part of the shaft, though still plenty hard enough for a marking point. In fact I used to use nails for gauges, since all old gauges I've ever struck had points that could be easily filed, which means they weren't all that hard. But nails will wear quickly in our hard woods, so you will need to sharpen them every now & then. That's why you see so many old gauges with used-up points..

For cutting gauges, I choose a size about 3-4mm and grind a small flat on one end. I aim to grind about half the drill away for a few mm. Then I bevel the round side & finish shaping the cutting edge with a diamond file. How much you round it & its final shape is a matter of choice - I like to make it slightly spear-shaped, and very sharp,so that it will cut a couple of mm deep if required. Very handy when cutting the rebates for butt hinges & so forth. Typically, the cutter is oriented so that the flat side is away from the stock - that way, it tends to pull the gauge into the work, & there's less tendency for the cutter to deviate towards the edge when marking along the grain. I prefer pin gauges for marking along the grain because they have less of a tendency to wander, but obviously,there are times when you will want to use a cutting gauge along the grain & cutting the back edge of hinge rebates is a typical example.

Arrrgh, Mooncaabbage, I've been sitting in front of a screen for hours - haven't done that since my paid work days - got a crick in my neck & it's close enough to beer o'clock on this side of the dust bowl (mud-bowl here, atm!), so I'm signing off. Catch yez later...

[Master Splinter]

re the Triton....strip the enamel off and re-do using acrylics...

[Mooncabbage]

Lol, that fkn Triton. I've spent far more time on it than I should have. I think I'd rather shoot myself than strip back the top again. If I can get away with it for now, I'll leave it, and when it gets scratched up, then I'll replace it. OR I'll get frustrated and go buy a brand new WC2000, depending on my mood. Although that money would probably be better spent elsewhere. Le Sigh.

EDIT: Here are my files:
files.jpg

Nothing special I should think, but they look like they'd still work

PS. I don't think I mentioned before, I'm planning to make my marking gauge with a wedge to hold the beam. I'll make the stock out of laminated red cedar I already have.

[Master Splinter]

Files - meet electrolysis bath...

[IanW]

..... I'm planning to make my marking gauge with a wedge to hold the beam. I'll make the stock out of laminated red cedar I already have.

Red Cedar, whether it's the imported WRC or our local Toona, are both too soft for a marking gauge IMO, and the face will wear very quickly in use. That's not a big deal for your first gauge, but I warn you that you'll have much more trouble cutting a square, clean, hole through the stock for the beam than you would with a firmer hardwood. Sounds paradoxical, but soft woods crush easily, even with a quite sharp chisel, and can be devilishly hard to cut cleanly. By all means have a go with what's on hand, & you may well manage to get it clean enough, depending on the particular piece you use. A narrow double-cut file (~6"), if you have it, is good for squaring & smoothing the sides of the hole. Main thing is to end up with a stock that locks firmly to its shaft & doesn't wobble. If you can do that, it will be just as accurate as a $200 job.

Cheers,

[derekcohen]

MC

Where about in Perth are you? I'm in Rossmoyne, and you are welcome to pop in, weekends only (today is Monday, public holiday in WA, and I'll be in the shed this afternoon). Just email me in advance.

I can demonstrate the benefits of a grinder (bring along a few of your chisels), as well as a couple of shop made tools of my own, such as marking gauges, planes, marking knives, etc.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bushmiller]

Mooncabbage

I'd snap up Derek's offer if I was you .

Regards
Paul

[pmcgee]

I warn you that you'll have much more trouble cutting a square, clean, hole through the stock for the beam than you would with a firmer hardwood.

Not having a hand-plane ... what about using some Bunnings dowel-stock for the centre beam ... I'm sure they have that in jarrah and whatever.

Part of the dowel could be flattened on some sandpaper to make a flat for the locking screw - or wedge - to register against.

You could shape the head-block however you like with a handsaw ... one of the hard-points if necessary .. and drill a hole in the centre that is a bit undersize and enlarge with a rat-tail file for the beam to pass through.
Or better would be to make a partial hole that complements the flattened shape of the beam.
I guess you could drill several little holes and clean up with a chisel and rasp/file.

Just trying to think of a budget-version marking-gauge to make with just a few chisels.

Cheers,
Paul

[pmcgee]

mc ... this is a post by Derek and some of his work ... https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/c...gauges-150595/

including also a Popular Mechanics link I found to making your own tools (Nov 1996) ... it has blown-up plans that might at least provide food for thought.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/c...ml#post1470507

Cheers,
Paul