there is no hope for the young poeple

[nz_carver]

imho, i don't care if someone is paid $5 or $50 / hr, if you work in a tool shop, why wouldn't you do some more research about what you are selling? Read a box, play with the display items, familiarise yourself with your job, whether the employer provides opportunities or formal training or not, read some books - even bunnings has one that answers some basic questions.

And for the young among us who can't read or write traditional text anymore:

¡mh0, ¡ þ0n'7 ç@r€ ¡ƒ §0m€0n€ ¡§ p@¡þ $5 0r $50 / hr, ¡ƒ ¥0µ w0rk ¡n @ 700£ §h0p, wh¥ w0µ£þn'7 ¥0µ þ0 §0m€ m0r€ r€§€@rçh @b0µ7 wh@7 ¥0µ @r€ §€££¡n9? R€@þ @ b0x, p£@¥ w¡7h 7h€ þ¡§p£@¥ ¡7€m§, ƒ@m¡£¡@r¡§€ ¥0µr§€£ƒ w¡7h ¥0µr j0b, wh€7h€r 7h€ €mp£0¥€r pr0v¡þ€§ 0pp0r7µn¡7¡€§ 0r ƒ0rm@£ 7r@¡n¡n9 0r n07, r€@þ §0m€ b00k§ - €v€n bµnn¡n9§ h@§ 0n€ 7h@7 @n§w€r§ §0m€ b@§¡ç qµ€§7¡0n§.

And if you can only read phone speak:

Imho, i dnt care f sum1 s paid $5 or $50 / hr, f u wrk ina 2l shop, y? wudnt u do sum mor rsrch bout wotu r selln? Read a bx, play w d display items, familiarise yrslf w/yr job, whether d employer provides opertntys or 4mal trainin or nt, read sum bux - evn bunnings hs 1 dat ansas sum basic qz.

Simple translations for those who don't like many words:

Get off your bum and do your job.

thank you!!!!!!!!

[BobL]

Gee, where do I start? Quite a few issues here...

Let's start with BobL, so I can't be accused to pick on somebody weaker.

Of course there are many intelligent, able students. These will always succeed, notwithstanding incompetent teachers/lecturers. To keep claiming their successes as successes of the school/university is IMHO indicative of the inability of the education system to criticise and therefore improve itself. Lip service to the concept that the real measure is the achievement of potential is always denied by avoiding like hell any attempt to measure it objectively.

Where in my post did I claim that I or the ed system had anything to do with this young fella's success? I posted this story because I'm getting a bit tired of the constant dumping on young people and I don't think we celebrate the high achieving young ones enough. They are the ones who will have to clean up our mess, and hopefully there will be some who will wipe our behinds in a few year time.

[Frank&Earnest]

Sorry about the understandable implication, Bob. You have reciprocated, though: where in my post did I accuse you specifically of making such claims?

More importantly: should I infer from this that you agree with my point?

[BobL]

Sorry about the understandable implication, Bob. You have reciprocated, though: where in my post did I accuse you specifically of making such claims?

Touche!

I have to keep reminding myself "I am not the system"!

More importantly: should I infer from this that you agree with my point?

in short yes. The system oaften tends to hang its hat on students who would have succeeded anyway - same goes in sport, finance and medicine. I have also seen many cases of the reverse, where individual teachers have nurtured students with poor or limited backgrounds, financial and family problems etc and have enabled them to succeed - the teachers get little or no credit. In reverse, I see smart self motivated students achieve modest outcomes in spite of what is done to them!

More credit should be given for overall improvements made, not just on final outcomes achieved.

[SPIRIT]

OK, two problems here. ALF is an acronym for Alien Life Form. There was a TV show back before you were born called ALF and it was about this hairy muppet-like guy who came from outer space. There are also various other organisations that use A.L.F. according to Wikipedia. It does not mean short person.

You might have meant 'elf', which is a creature from mythology. They also feature in the Lord of the Rings. They generally aren't short either. In the original myth, they are actually quite tall and slim.

So neither of these words really fit your description of a 'short person'. You could have used midget or dwarf - although apparently there's nothing that says mythological dwarves were short either (I didn't know that until I read about it in Wikipedia). Apparently people who suffer from dwarfism prefer the term 'little person' so you could have used that. If the person was really 4'9" then they would be classified as a dwarf (or little person) but I suspect that was an exaggeration.

See how important using the right words are to getting your point across?

However, you're obviously not a professional writer or a teacher, so it's not really expected that you know any of this stuff. I'm aware that schools tend to focus on 'life skills' now instead of literacy, although that might be changing. I can see the point of view that a person working in Bunnings should know what a jigsaw is - at least if they are working in the power tool section but I don't suppose it's in Bunnings' business plan to send every new kid on a comprehensive "know that tool" course. They would do basic induction training and then learn on the job I guess. It's not really the ALF's fault.

you really are stuck on the ALF thing silent is there something that is eating at you in this department we use a not lol I will finish reading the rest of the post now

[SPIRIT]

well that's how long it took me to read all them posts
frank gee you use big words

I left school at 15 where I didn't learn much at all ,couldn't sit still none of the things they told me stuck in my head .
Was it the schools fault, no not fully most of the blame was mine if I applied myself things would have been different .
So where did the little education get me

23 years in the same job as a motor mechanic
4 years bunnings (tool shop )
1 year designing and teaching sustainable systems (privet school)
2 years teaching disengaged teenager that can't cope with the class room year 7 to 9 at two different schools (ART, WOOD WORK, LIFE SKILLS, BIULDING)

I see all types go though the program and there are some you just can't help ,what I have seen of the teachers they are a caring and educated lot

so why are so many slipping though the system

can't see any more money coming into schools soon from the government
I know some of you will scoff at this but teachers are working hard for their money
tech school would be a good thing but there is nobody to teach in them

so what is the answer it is easy to knock things hard to fix things
so come on all you smart people what do we do and make it so nobody get left behind

[Ron Dunn]

what do we do and make it so nobody get left behind

There's your problem. People SHOULD be left behind.

I can't run. Never could. Would you put me in an athletic competition? Not in a million years.

Different people have different skills. Not everyone is suited to academic achievement, and keeping them in school beyond their capability lowers the standard of education achievable by the rest. Dumbing down is a reality these days.

[nz_carver]

spirit i take my hat off to u

there are so meny young kids sliping away and it is sad

[SPIRIT]

There's your problem. People SHOULD be left behind.

I can't run. Never could. Would you put me in an athletic competition? Not in a million years.

Different people have different skills. Not everyone is suited to academic achievement, and keeping them in school beyond their capability lowers the standard of education achievable by the rest. Dumbing down is a reality these days.

disagree
between the ages of 12 and 17 kids go though one of the biggest changes in their life ,schools supply a great safety net for kids that could be at risk we find if we can keep them in school until their past the worst of it, their opportunities greatly improve.
every person has the right to be the they can

[Ron Dunn]

Spirit, are students more literate today than 50 years ago? No.

Are they more numerate? No.

Do they have a better knowledge of history or geography? No.

Can they all stand around in a circle, give each other hugs, and sing Kumbaya? Yes. Well, probably not sing.

Children aged between 12 and 17 went through exactly the same changes in their lives 50 years ago ... 100 years ago ... and they survived just fine. What started to screw them up is when we went soft on kicking their backsides occasionally, and moving them out of school when they reached their limit.

We took all the risk out of their lives, wrapped them in cotton wool, and told them how special and talented they were ... and now we wonder why they are completely self-centred, completely unaware of risk and responsibility, and academically incompetent.

[SPIRIT]

spirit, are students more literate today than 50 years ago? No.

Are they more numerate? No.

Do they have a better knowledge of history or geography? No.
yes they do are you joking 100 years ago you were lucky if you went to school
now its a must 100 years ago the system pumped out how many with this knowledge
what percent % ???
now the % its a good slice

can they all stand around in a circle, give each other hugs, and sing kumbaya? Yes. Well, probably not sing.

somebody needs a hug :d,so they teach kids now to get in touch with their feelings

children aged between 12 and 17 went through exactly the same changes in their lives 50 years ago ... 100 years ago ... And they survived just fine. What started to screw them up is when we went soft on kicking their backsides occasionally, and moving them out of school when they reached their limit.
we have problem at moment with teenage suicide, anger and all other thing
the pace we ran at as 35 to 55 yo is insane
they just can't stand it, at with pace things change so quick and the weaker one are cracking
one of the other suicide bracket is what 35 to 55

we took all the risk out of their lives, wrapped them in cotton wool, and told them how special and talented they were ... And now we wonder why they are completely self-centred, completely unaware of risk and responsibility,sad it is ,the court did this to the education system ,schools are a prime target to getting sued academically incompetent.

bs

[nz_carver]

im not felling any love here do u all need a hug

[Frank&Earnest]

Does your signature mean that you have been rejected, NZ?

Ron Dunn, I thoroughly appreciate the thoughtfulness of your avatar description.

Would youse take a bit of a dig instead of a hug? It's not love but laugh is the best medicine... if you do not feel you are laughed at, of course.

[nz_carver]

lol no juat didnt think it was goignt to be all cut and paste

look im not saying all young people are brain dead and i our working life we all have to start somewere
but why take a job in a tool shop if u dont know anythink about tools???

look im a ex chef so i get to be around people all day and u soon pick up on the
ones that are there to do there job and the ones who are there just for the$$

i know food and wine and people so i dont think you will ever find me fixing your car
why coz its somethink i know nothing about!!
so why go and take a job coz u can??
let the ones out there who know there stuff take the job the ones who do know what there talking about!!!!



ok i was at carba tec here in sydney yesterday and it was a gr8 felling to be in a shop with people that know there stuff there was this old girl there i think she had to be in her 50s but she knew more then most of the boys out there didnt catch her name but its my new place to spend $$$ and i will be back

[bark-hut]

This has been quite entertaining I must say, good points all round, pity I don't understand all of it.
Must be something to do with age.
Spirit, I would love to 'teach' but don't have the paper that says I'm able, do you think there's a chance for an oldie to be involved
(I was told, when quite young, "we all die at about age 18, just takes another 60 years to get buried")