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Results 661 to 675 of 2079
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7th June 2022, 10:20 PM #661
Ahh
but don't forget that in 2021, the Australian Government cancelled their contract to buy 12 French nuclear subs -- the French subs were to be reconfigured so that they are powered by diesel engines.
What does that decision (nuclear powered submarines) mean in terms of the future of nuclear power for Australia.
The current research reactor at Lucas Heights doesn't cut it.
So will Australia be supplied with highly enriched uranium to run the new [US or, more likely UK designed and constructed] subs? The basis being that highly enriched uranium allows the sub's reactors to be fuelled for life.
HOWEVER, note that supplying Australia with highly enriched uranium would seemingly violate the wording of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, to which Australia is a signatory. However, I'm not sure that leasing the subs, and their uranium filled reactors, to Australia would necessarily violate the wording of the NNPT. If Australia were to only lease the nuclear subs, would the highly enriched uranium fuel still be technically under US or UK control? If that were the case, the reactors, once their cores were depleted, could be returned to the US for NNPT verification.
Alternatively, Australia might need to develop their own nuclear industry so that they can operate the planned nuclear subs independently of the US's and/or UK's nuclear industry.
That would be an argument to develop a domestic Australian nuclear power industry that does not require any rational economic evaluation.
Alternatively, Australia could return to the, now cancelled, contract to acquire eight or so French nuclear subs. Australia's decision to adopt nuclear power for their new subs would mean that the design delays associated with attempting to shoe-horn a diesel engine, and the large fuel tanks required to attain the operation range desired, into a space designed for a nuclear reactor would no longer be an issue.
Note that although the French subs need refuelling every ten (?) years, they run on low enriched uranium so don't violate the NNPT.
And if a Los Angles class or an Astute class nuclear sub were redesigned to accommodate refuelling, there is no guarantee that the design delays experienced with the French subs would not be repeated.regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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8th June 2022, 12:15 AM #662
It would need a very special negotiator to go have a chat with France. One that can, and be willing, to hear from some rather cranky people with a legitimate grievance.
I'm pretty sure we are at the top of their $hit-list right now.
The last two posts have brought up some of the very real problems with nuclear... Implementation is long, nobody wants this beast in their back yard, it requires a level of expertise to run we simply don't have natively (??) and decommish is a pretty penny. Then there is the fuel and disposal.
If these could be solved, cool.... but ...
For the same money we could build quite a juicy renewable solution?
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8th June 2022, 09:14 AM #663
We are going slightly off track here, not that this is enought to halt our conversations
.
WP:
Your comments are right on the money and I don't see these issues being resolved in the forseeable future; Just the lead time alone is mind boggling.
"The last two posts have brought up some of the very real problems with nuclear... Implementation is long, nobody wants this beast in their back yard, it requires a level of expertise to run we simply don't have natively (??) and decommish is a pretty penny. Then there is the fuel and disposal."
Ian:
I am not really familiar with nukes in subs, although a brief look seems to indicate that some may be using uranium at a higher level of enrichment. However, this thread is about land based nukes for electricity generation and the level of enrichment for those is in the range of 4% to 7%. This is a long way from weapons grade material that is enriched at >97% and a big step in technology. While there are huge issues around nuke power before it becomes acceptable I don't see the transition to nuclear armament as being at the forefront: Arguably, a long way down the track some power hungry nutter may see an opportunity, but that could be a subject for a separate thread.
My understanding of the Lucas Heights reactor is thatit has a nominal capability of 5MW, but that is just a power rating as it is not used to generate electricity. I believe the primary use is for medial supplies and some element of research.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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8th June 2022, 11:04 AM #664
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As an aside and to give some insight into one operation of the Lucas Heights which is close to me, when they are transporting used material for export all the roads south of the reactor are closed to all traffic between the reactor and Port Kembla. I have been caught twice by this in the last few years and it lasts for the best part of an hour and there is no advanced warning of it happening until just before they do it.
CHRIS
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8th June 2022, 12:09 PM #665
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8th June 2022, 01:19 PM #666
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8th June 2022, 01:26 PM #667
This lead time really puzzles me with respect to submarines, whether French, USA or UK. Delivery will be in 2040 or later. 20 years in the future.
Just imagine if we had ordered a bunch of submarines in 1930 to be delivered in 1950. They might have missed something significant!
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8th June 2022, 02:18 PM #668
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8th June 2022, 02:20 PM #669
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8th June 2022, 05:17 PM #670
Not solar, but you've started me on a dangerous thought process.... renewables!
They could be run on bio-diesel, corn syrup, compressed air, or even hydro.
Since they are so deep, they are effectively IN the "dam". They could build a small turbine, let the outside water in via that turbine and generate power like that. The deeper they go, the more pressure and therefore power they have!
Once the sub is full, they could surface, let it all out, then sink to the bottom again to generate more power.
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8th June 2022, 09:52 PM #671
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get a bunch of nuclear subs
when not needed for war
throw a couple of extension cords out of them and plug into the grid
island nations have been known to just ram large ships into shore and use the diesel generators on board to power the local town.
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8th June 2022, 10:52 PM #672
The person who put Australia on the French $hit list was replaced on May 21.
There's a whole new lot in power now -- reactivating the French nuclear sub deal could be a possibility.
It will all depend on how the new lot view the previous lot's attempted wedge on nuclear power.regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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9th June 2022, 01:17 PM #673
Not exactly Scomo's Finest Hour......
Now we start reading that Defence will need a bridging capability between existing Collins Class subs and the vapourware that is our nuclear (sorry, "nookular" for our US readers) submarine fleet....gosh, what a surprise !
Defence procurement in Australia is a shambles. I wouldn't trust them to go down to the local corner shop and procure me a litre of milk.
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9th June 2022, 02:33 PM #674
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9th June 2022, 04:26 PM #675
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