I Really Cracked It Last Night!

[Bleedin Thumb]

Yes we are lucky but that doesn't mean theres nothing wrong, but until men stand up and say something it's only going to get worse and what will that be like for our kids and grandkids.

Hi Meerkat,
What are we supposed to say.. Stop showing anti rape and abuse ads on TV that are aimed at males because I am a male and I dont do those things?
Those ads are unpalatable but I don't let them offend me as I'm not the one they're aimed at and I can't see why blokes get so defensive over them.:confused:

There are plenty of guys out there that need to take head of those ads like the ####'s that abused you.:mad:

An important way to stop this #### is public education because a lot of young blocks don't have the parental role models that we had (as poor as that was). Think of that #### of a father of the boys charged with gang rape in Sydney last year defending their behavour saying the girl desirved it.

I agree that what we need is a place that is safe loving etc etc, but is that going to happen, can't see it myself.

Society is going to hell on a fast train IMHO and all we can do is to protect ourselves and our families as best we can and try to instill in your kids a code of behaviour that shows respect to all humans, saves the whales, protects the enviroment and saves lots of money to support you in your old age

[namtrak]

Meerkat, you make some very valid points. And I guess I should quantify stuff to say that is how I feel, not how all men should feel.

And I also can empathise with Studley and being frustrated to the point of aggression, however what is differentiating us from those that give us a bad name is that when the rubber hits the road we are able to restrain ourselves.

Your saying that men don't have a voice, and I guess my point (or my belief) is that since we first got here 200 years ago. White middle aged men have always been THE sole voice, and it is only in the last 30 years that disparate or disadvantaged groups have started to ask for their wheels to be oiled. I think it is a paradigm shift that we (men) are going to have to adjust to in whatever way we can. Either accept the changes or create our own voice.

[meerkat]

Namtrak, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that we supress anyones voice and I know you are certainly not suggesting that we should.

But this concept that if anyones voice should not be heard is the males because we've been the "sole" voice for years is just not acceptable and should not be an excuse for allowing abuse or injustices towards men. (I know that is not you are suggesting either)

I also totally agree that we (as men) need to speak up, rather than sit back and take it like a man. This thread should be seen as an example of the concerns that are out there.

[Bleedin Thumb]

Your saying that men don't have a voice, and I guess my point (or my belief) is that since we first got here 200 years ago. White middle aged men have always been THE sole voice, and it is only in the last 30 years that disparate or disadvantaged groups have started to ask for their wheels to be oiled. I think it is a paradigm shift that we (men) are going to have to adjust to in whatever way we can. .

I agree with that and would also add that we are coping this flack because we probably deserve it. Not as individuals but as a group. We as a group has been responsible for or known of and done nothing about a lot of things that would never been allowed if everyone in society had equal voices over the last what 50, 100 or more years.

Society changes us dinosaurs just have to get used to it.

[meerkat]

I agree bleedin thumb.

The only reason I think we get "offended" by them is not that we are offended as such, we are just tired of the constant onslaught the media put out that eventually seeps into the subconcious that leads to more problems.

Education is the right way but who is willing to educate ? The governments ?

Geez kids have trouble spelling, reading, writing with maths etc, why would they do anything else if they cant get the basics working ?

Sorry I digressed

[Bleedin Thumb]

I agree bleedin thumb.

The only reason I think we get "offended" by them is not that we are offended as such, we are just tired of the constant onslaught the media put out that eventually seeps into the subconcious that leads to more problems.

Education is the right way but who is willing to educate ? The governments ?

I think that is a problem with any educational or political campaign. If the subject matter is simply rammed down peoples throats it runs the risk of alienating a lot of people. Look at those grose quit smoking ads.People still are but gradually less and less.
But how do you tackle a problem that is so ingrained in society without some shock tactics?

[adrian]

I know a few people who were abused as children (male and female) and if some of us have to get our noses out of joint to stop other kids from going through what they have been through, then so be it. This problem is so common it would horrify most people if they knew the full extent of it.
It's only through this sort of publicity that anything has gotten done. You only have to look at the changes that have taken place in the XXXX church (self censored). Ten years ago if you got married to a woman you'd be kicked out of the church but if you abused (raped) fifty kids you would receive a good talking to and then moved to fresh ground.
I'm afraid you are going to have to take it on the chin for now because things are going to get worse before they get better.

[Rossluck]

To me, the issue here is, how do we weed out the pedophiles, rapists, wife bashers, and so on, without this thinly veiled blanket accusation that all males are barley restrained potential criminals?

It may come as a surprise to some excited protectors of all of the targets of male aggression that we don't all walk around with a view of children as sexual beings, or with a view of scantily clad women as "asking for it", or that we all think that it's OK to physically dominate women in some way.

In fact, if you could slip into OUR minds for a moment, you might find that these things horrify us as much as they do you, maybe more.

[Studley 2436]

I wonder if men would do themselves a favour by having a lash at the various criminals who abuse children?

Good men saying that animal not only harms an innocent child he harms upstanding and innocent men too and deserves the full force of the law. It might do something to highlight that most men are perfectly decent people

Studley (remembering my stepmonster and after what she did there is no pitt in hell deep enough for her)

[meerkat]

Adrian abuse in the "religious" environment is still going on, with recent changes ie police checks will help there but until people are educated and come forward with the support of the community etc this will not get "cleaned up". Maybe if the victims were treated more seriously rather than being the "instigators" things would get done.

As far as taking it on the chin... Well I see that a little different, say that to the muslim community and you will be given a serving. Say it to our indiginous people and they too will give you a serve, why because they are willing to stand up and say yes there are problems but don't imply we are all the problem.

So we don't speak up and what are we leaving our sons ? What are we telling them ? Everyone else has a voice, everyone else gets "protected", everyone else is valued but you my boy just take it like a man and live with it.

Just because the pendulum has swung too far the other way doesnt mean its right, we (as a society) need force it to the centre where everyone IS treated equally.

Don't get me wrong Adrian I'm not giving you a serve (although I suppose it does sound like it ) I do understand what you are trying to say.

I also agree with Studley, we need to stand up and be seen to be against these people. Only one problem, there is no voice. There is no-one that gets on the media and speaks up to say we are not all abusers etc until then the only way the media etc do it is to paint everyone the same.

That means everyone should be painted as abusers coz they are everywhere.

Maybe the media should be more balanced with their reporting, maybe that would go to help the situation, maybe theres a shock ad for you to see a woman beating her husband, verbally abusing him, causing him mental anguish, telling people that whilst they are in the very slim minority there are women too that pray on children.

[meerkat]

I agree with that and would also add that we are coping this flack because we probably deserve it. Not as individuals but as a group. We as a group has been responsible for or known of and done nothing about a lot of things that would never been allowed if everyone in society had equal voices over the last what 50, 100 or more years.

Society changes us dinosaurs just have to get used to it.

Sorry I just read this. Oh and this is not directed at you bleedingthumb, its the topic I'm responding to.

I'd like to say, with all due respect BS. but can't, but would also like to say, this is how the government, the media and the special interest groups want us to think like.

uh oh I really sound like a rebel

Go around cap in hand apologising for all the bad deeds in the world. Well sorry for being a white male, but I will not be sorry for something I didn't do, I will not be held responsible for things I had no way of knowing about or doing etc.

Are women (as a group) sorry because men were sent white feathers because the women thought they should be going to war to die ?

Should governments and other groups be sorry and apologise for sending young men and women to war ? Should they apologise for the crap treatment these same people got when they returned ?

Every part of society could find something that other parts of society should be sorry for and hold that against them, but we don't.

We know there is a problem, we want to be part of the solution but don't blame us as a whole because this gets noone nowhere.

Sure society is changing, sure many people with voices now should have had louder ones in the past BUT are you telling me that a woman seeing/knowing of injustices couldn't say anything in the past.

For many many years women have influenced the outcome of things, they have been able to bring things to light, they too (as a group) are responsible for many of these injustances. The real issue here is a few things one of which is that in some cases, their voices were often muffled by not only men but other women, just as we take it like men theirs was don't rock the boat, don't upset the family etc.

How many times did mothers "take one for the team" and not say a thing to keep harmony in the house. Was it the right thing maybe, maybe not but their intent for the most part was true and good.

Sorry for my full on comments, maybe it's the lack of caffiene

[Bleedin Thumb]

Should governments and other groups be sorry and apologise for sending young men and women to war ? Should they apologise for the crap treatment these same people got when they returned ?

Well for Iraq and Vietnam possibly but even those two can be justified.

Should John Howard apologise to aboriginal Australians for the genicide that was perpetrated on them by previous Governments and the countries white inhabitants.?

I beleive yes. But Little Johnny obviously doesnt agree and I assume others here don't too.

I don't think and am not trying to say we walk around with our caps in hand.
We have to bring these issues out in the open- hence the offensive adds discuss the issues and resolve the problems. If our little male egos get a bit bruised well thats tuff.

I'd rather see those adds which maybe are saving a lot of missery, than living in a society where I knew my neighbours or family members were being abused and no one was saying a word ...hey that was only 10 years ago.
Once again I can't understand why these ads are offending you guys you should get thicker skins and stop being paranoid about what other people (women) think of you.

[dazzler]

Briiiiiing briiiiiiing, briiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing briiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing,

Mr Psychologist, got some work for your at www.woodworkforums.com.au.......


"Ill be right over"

[adrian]

Adrian abuse in the "religious" environment is still going on, with recent changes ie police checks will help there but until people are educated and come forward with the support of the community etc this will not get "cleaned up". Maybe if the victims were treated more seriously rather than being the "instigators" things would get done.

It's always going to go on but the thing that has changed is the way we deal with it. I remember being told by a teacher in a Sydney inner city primary school that one of the male teachers had been transfered to another school because he was molesting kids. Thankfully that method of dealing with the crime just doesn't happen any more.
I was told a few years ago by my parents that when we were staying at my aunts place my 8 year old cousin came in and put himself to bed in the middle of the day. Sorry to be so graphic but he was bleeding from the anus and it was obvious that he had been raped. That in itself is a terrible event but what made it infinitely worse was that no-one, including my parents, did anything about it because they were convinced that his father did it. This was in the late fifties and that's the way this sort of thing was swept under the carpet.
I know how everyone feels about the way we men are treated these days and I know only too well what it has done to the way we interact with kids. When my daughter was little it was a ritual that when she came out of the bath she would get some serious rasberries blown on her belly. It was something that would have both of us in fits. My three year old grandaughter is still innocent enough to have the same reaction that her mother did. The five year old is another matter entirely. She goes to school in New York and one of the first things they teach kids is the to be wary of the attentions of men. Needless to say, she doesn't get the rasberry treatment.
That innocence we had when we were kids is gone from kids these days but if that means that they don't experience what my friends and cousin went through it's got to be a good thing.

[Rossluck]

Briiiiiing briiiiiiing, briiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing briiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing,

Mr Psychologist, got some work for your at www.woodworkforums.com.au.......


"Ill be right over"

Don't go through the forum, Dazzler, give him your number.