Barnaby Joyce

[damian]

First let me say I enjoy reading your posts Sebastian. You and a few others here are what I might label the rational left.

I don't like being lied to and I don't like being dictated to and I don't like it comming from either the socialists or the conservatives. I don't like religeon wrapped up as science. Unfortunately when I type I sometimes come across as more agressive than I ahd intended to. I do try to prevent this but as always I'm human.

Good to see all of the carefully considered entrenched positions are the same a couple of years after we began these kinds of deliberations.

To quote spinal tap, "majesty of rock, the":

The more it stays the same the less it changes.....

I think you will need to justify this claim Damian. Between Murdoch, Fairfax and Macquarie Radio I think the right is well represented in the Sydney basin. We even get fed Andrew Bolt's revolting puke regularly here. If you mean the ABC it is hardly the dominant news and opinion force in Australia. Look at the ratings. I dont know what the media landscape is like where you are.

I have heard this said many times.

I accept I've been consumed by a somewhat irrational hatred of the labor party over these last 12 years because of what they have done to my home state of queensland and latterly to the nation, but until recently I was a devoted independant/democrat (pre 2000)/minor party voter, yet everywhere I look I see the labor/greens getting a much better run in coverage than the conservatives who seem to be derided and lampooned at every turn. I suppose perception is a felxible thing. Every time BB poked his head out prior to the last month or so the reporters did everything short of intercourse....

I accept Tony Abbott comes across as an escapee from a really creepy asylum and to be honest my partner and I were practically on the floor a couple of years ago laughing at the idea that TA became leader of the opposition let alone PRIME MINISTER. I think it's the most telling fact of all that the electorate came within 1 seat of picking him over the alternatives.

Interestingly, Tony Abbot pulled back somewhat from Barnaby's pronouncement today by saying that Cate Blanchet had a right to say what she wanted and that to introduce a carbon tax would require a mandate by election and therefore the Prime Minister should call and election post haste (and at about that speed BTW). What fascinates me about this is the attack dog role that Barnaby so obviously relishes. The tactic is as old as Parliment itself. The leader sends an attack via a high profile subordinate and gauges the reaction to the attack. If it is favourable he endorses it and carries on the rallying cry. If it is not favourable he softens the tone just as he has just done in this case. The interesting bit is that Tony was John Howard's attack dog for years. This is partly why he (Tony) is having such a hard time changing his image. Remember his attacks on Bernie Banton?

I think your giving them waay too much credit for being organised. I think BJ is playing his own game and Tony is managing the "issues" he creates as best he can. You have to understand the sort of people who go into politics are totally obsessed with power, and they really aren't very bright, which is why they need armies of minders and consultants to help them appear vaguely human in public.

Here in NSW Barry O'Farrell blew it a couple of weeks age with his attempt to cut the Solar Feed in tariff's. He should have got one of his minions to canvas the idea first. It would have saved him a lot of face.

I though that was done by labor before they were chucked out ? I thought it went from 60c to 20c last december or something ?

FWIW I think encouraging solar is just about the best thig the government could do. It's popular, not that expensive in the scheme of things and allows us to suppliment peak loads at point of use in a country short of water but with an abundance of sunshine.

And just to clarify I support anyone having a say on this, although you could argue that people in priveliged positions and no responsibility should be mindful of that. I refer to my first point above though, I object to lies and propoganda wherever they come from.

In case anyone wants to do some reading on the issues pertaining to global warming/climate change/pillaging your wallet by taxing the air we breath (no bias there )

Watts Up With That?

Note this is a "sceptic" site but if you scroll down and look on the right side there are links to a variety of sites giving all sides of the story. Poke about and decide for yourself.

The Science of Doom

is listed as pro agw. It's hard going but he's written some very complete tutorials to explain some of the issues. I especially like some of the atmospheric physics articles.

[Waldo]

If you mean the ABC it is hardly the dominant news and opinion force in Australia. Look at the ratings. I dont know what the media landscape is like where you are.

I don't rate the commercial networks as the bearers of news. Even when they do have a political news story it is to their own view. The ABC and SBS news don't win ratings, but they do report the news in detail and from both sides.

I've grown into an old man and also watch Lateline and Q&A, I read the ABC news throughout the day. I don't care for special reports or news that you know what is going to be on in two days time e.g 7 or 9.

So, although I swing one way politically, I like to get all views from real sources to form my opinions.

I didn't watch 7 news last night, well I did for a few minutes, but I always turn to 24 for the real headline news before I put on 7, just so SWMBO can watch the weather and I can have a snooze, but I bet all they showed of Dillard last night at the girls school was her commenting on another girls hair colour.

[Sebastiaan56]

Dont tell anyone else Waldo but for international news you cant beat Al-Jazeera.

I think your giving them waay too much credit for being organised. I think BJ is playing his own game and Tony is managing the "issues" he creates as best he can. You have to understand the sort of people who go into politics are totally obsessed with power, and they really aren't very bright, which is why they need armies of minders and consultants to help them appear vaguely human in public.

you're getting worse than me Damian.

[damian]

Just shows you don't know me well. I AM much much worse.

I am reminded of an event many years ago. I was an avid democrats voter and considered joining the party. I got invited to the celebration dinner after one of the elections. All was fine until the politicians got up and gave their speaches. It was then I realised the democrats were just as bad as all the others. I wasn't shocked when they shafted us on the gst...

Whenever I'm near a politician or an "executive" type I can't help but feel like I've waded into a sewer...they truely are a breed apart...

[Sebastiaan56]

Im a member of a business networking group and we had a local hopeful from the Libs roll up to convince us to vote for him. He lost me the moment he opened his mouth and said that his goal was to support small business. To be fair we have never had any other hopefuls come through the group, probably a good thing. We hold each other accountable which of course is anathema to that profession...

[Sturdee]

Ahem, I thought Australia was a democracy...... I thought the citizens got to decide.....

That is the main problem. We didn't get to decide on this issue.

Before the election Labour promised no carbon tax so the issue wasn't discussed or voted on. Then Ms Gillard changed her mind and now is hell bent on wrecking our economy with an ill conceived and stupid tax on carbon dioxide and not the Carbon that they claim.

Further lies by the government.

In the commercial we are asked to say YES, but when will the government give us the opportunity as they won't hold an election or a referendum?


Peter.

[Waldo]

[Geoff Dean]

[rrobor]

There is another post by Rod Dyson in the renovative forum to cover this crap,
This question has turned into pure politics, The ultra right clinging to their share portfolio and herding their sheep trying to sell their slamt. Whilst the left muster the greenies to bolster their numbers.
In the other forum a Doctor posts if you believe that. More likely an add mob paid by Gina, Why so, What doctor would spend hours filtering stuff for the Renovative forum.
Looking at reality, it is likely we are stuffing the planet up. It now comes down to who cares and who does not
As hurracanes increase Tornadoes increase, Earthquakes inrease and Volcanoes increase. If I was religious I would say someone is trying to tell us something. As I am not, I believe it just might be our stuff up. How long do you want to wait to find out.

[Geoff Dean]

The thing is, we were lied to by Juliar during her job interview (election campaign).

I'm pretty sure if I went for a job interview and said x and then proceeded to do the exact opposite, I wouldn't have a job any more.

As for climate change, it has been happening from the day that planet earth winked into existence as a molten lump of rock. It is just going thru a different phase at the moment.

[Greg Ward]

I think earthquakes and volcanoes may have a little more power behind them than anything us little ants can muster.
Tornadoes and storms, and other superficial surface weather events..... I'll accept that we little ants need our bottoms smacked perhaps.
Greg

[artme]

What have earthquakes and volcanic activity to do with the carbon tax and climate change.

As far as I know we do not, and cannot, influence these!

Volcanic activity may well have an effect on climate, as they spew out massive amounts of atmospheric "pollutants"

.What can we do about this? Plug the bloody things? tax countries with active volcanoes? ( Just a side issue for another red herring )

[rrobor]

Perhaps so, perhaps not. If the sea rises what happens to the pull of gravity. Im sure I dont know, do you?. When I was a child in Scotland we got eaten by horse flies. Within a few years they were gone, Why, I dont know. All I see is a far more violent earth. Each year its worse. Floods Hurracanes and the like. Yep every so often you get a one of,f but each year getting several one offs around the planet just has to be viewed as something else. So scoff if you must but note this. I wrote something similar in another forum 10 years ago. So far my predictions of worsening disasters are correct in that time. Try proving me incorrect.

[Greg Ward]

Hmmm.
I think the dinosaurs once had a sage that said the sky would fall and after several million years it did.
If you list every disaster (so called) of the last 10 years and look back in recent history, you will find another that was worse, so that proves?
Absolutely nothing apart from the fact that as our life expectancy is around 80 years, we can only relate to time within that limit, we struggle to understand a thousand years and a million is beyond our comprehension. As for a billion.... forget it
So let's not look at 10 years as anything of import please, please.
Thanks
Greg

[rrobor]

perhaps you dont understand my point. I dont limit this to 10 years. Next year there will be no improvement, no respite, the horror goes on. Sure thats not quite accurate, there will be swings and roundabouts but the trend will remain, it will get worse.
People dont want to look at reality, it will cost them. People believe in what is comfortable, what is taught and not what is real. For example, In Scotland the lesser horseshoe bat is dying out. Do a search, its thought its due to pollution. Sounds like an arguement for me to prove something but its incorrect. This little bat survives under slates on the north side of poorly insulated houses near the chimney of a fire that doesnt go out over winter. People believe this poor little begger hibernates hanging upside down. Slating a farm roof, there is your answer.
What is the point, The point is once you understand every angle, you see the simple truth. South side the slates heat with the sun, north they stay cool etc etc
Trying to find every angle of climate change involves sea salinity, water weight currents,+ gravity and a multitude of other things. people may waffle as to this or that, but the simple truth is we dont know enough to be sure. When that happens, why take risks