Language and its abuse

[boban]

Americanisation of our language irks me a bit. Your Honour, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't ours Your Worships.

Your Worship was only used to address Magistrates in Local Courts. All other judges were referred to as Your Honour. This changed a couple of years ago. Now everyone is "Your Honour".

Plain English is now a learning requirement for new lawyers. You are right Alex, most of the long worded crap is to avoid confusion or more to the point "alleged confusion" when the crap hits the fan.

Wheelin, you make me laugh. You don't honestly expect me to believe that those two individuals told you that the long winded letters are only for the better paying clients do you? Come on mate, stick to what you know.

[jerryc]

While I try to take a pride in correct spelling I am more than aware that spelling didn't trouble Shakespeare unduly, and has some not so obvious traps. For example "program" "programme." The latter was a nineteenth century genteel abomination like "shoppe" that we just got stuck with or to be grammatically correct , with which we got lumbered. I just love hearing our stalwart policemen using "Police Speak". What I find a real problem is the convolutions that Americanese can inflict. They "burglarise" the language.
Language is dynamic and words do change in meaning, it's something we have to bear. Unfortunately.

Let us be like the Japanese who treat their language with great respect and echo the sentiments of this tee shirt. The words may not be absolutely correct but we can at least see the intent. SWMBO argues this last bit is totally off the subject.

Jerry

[jerryc]

I think I've got it.

jerry

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

As to any language, the sole purpose is communication (as put by Tripper). The evolution of languages or the means of communication has no effect IMHO on the standard of the society within which we live.

I think that part of Tripper's point was that nowadays that's not the sole purpose. Politikspeak, for example, has evolved to give the impression of conveying great import while actually providing no content at all. That's not communication, it's deliberate miscommunication. IMHO 'tis just a more subtle form of lying with less chance of being "caught" before it's too late and doesn't matter.

And sadly, this trend is becoming more popular in everyday use - it's not just PR depts and upper management, I get the same meaningless gobbledygook from service depts and the "you're doing it wrong" idiot next door.

If you think this trend doesn't affect our society, well..

[astrid]

Its the way we put them together
astrid

[pawnhead]

And also the way we punctuate:

An English professor wrote the words, “Woman without her man is nothing” on the blackboard and directed his students to punctuate it correctly.

The men wrote: “Woman, without her man, is nothing.”

The women wrote: “Woman: Without her, man is nothing.”

[astrid]

Sorry, for some reason its not working and i probably cant spell it either.
astrid

[boban]

I think that part of Tripper's point was that nowadays that's not the sole purpose. Politikspeak, for example, has evolved to give the impression of conveying great import while actually providing no content at all. That's not communication, it's deliberate miscommunication. IMHO 'tis just a more subtle form of lying with less chance of being "caught" before it's too late and doesn't matter.

And sadly, this trend is becoming more popular in everyday use - it's not just PR depts and upper management, I get the same meaningless gobbledygook from service depts and the "you're doing it wrong" idiot next door.

If you think this trend doesn't affect our society, well..

I didn't read Tripper's post that way. My take on his post was that some people with large vocabularies use it in order to sound more "snobbish", when simpler words would do the trick.

As to your point, I don't remember anything in this thread (and I'm not reading it again) about the political non answers or vague speak you refer to. However, I agree with the thrust of your post.

[astrid]

while we're on the subject.
I cant work out what IMHO means

astrid

[astrid]

for all the high fallutin words
I was reading Marcell Pagnol's "my father's castle"
to my 14yo daughter last night.
short sentences, beautifull imagery, fantastic humour
she was crying with laughter.
but she dosent understand Austin or a lot of other english lit

Astrid

[DJ’s Timber]

while we're on the subject.
I cant work out what IMHO means

astrid

In My Humble Opinion

[astrid]

thanks
astrid

[Pusser]

But it probably doesn't mean what it says - sometimes it will and in others it will probably mean "In my opinion and you can lump it". Context is important.

Pusser

[Schtoo]

Don't be sorry LGS, just get it right next time you, uh, err. Whatever.


I wasn't too worried or upset. No real need to be.

The standards you refer to are pretty much non-existent in my line of work. You can be any clown with any level of the English manglage and still get away with it.

For example, there are a couple people around here that probably shouldn't be teaching English, but they are and making money at it. A guy from Finland and another from somewhere in Africa come to mind. Nobody can work out how the Finnish guy got a job (and to be honest, I have never met him. He may be very good) and the African guy is borderline incomprehensible to me, and I can usually understand anyone regardless of how thick an accent or erroneous syntax they may use.

That's not the worst of it, but it's an example of how silly things are.

And to make matters worse, an awful lot of people have no trouble going to a class taught by someone who really shouldn't teach anything, but have concerns about me because I am Australian.

It's an accent thing, something of which I am largely free from nowadays.

I need a new job. Is it obvious?

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

But it probably doesn't mean what it says - sometimes it will and in others it will probably mean "In my opinion and you can lump it". Context is important.

Very true. I usually use it mean "This is my opinion. I don't expect anyone to agree, but I also doubt that anything said will change my mind."

Aren't words wonderful things?

I didn't read Tripper's post that way. My take on his post was that some people with large vocabularies use it in order to sound more "snobbish", when simpler words would do the trick.

My mistake... this thread is long and even after quickly rescanning over it before posting I screwed up who started it. I was thinking of LGS, not Tripper, so I went off on a tangent...

As to your point, I don't remember anything in this thread (and I'm not reading it again) about the political non answers or vague speak you refer to. However, I agree with the thrust of your post.

I was merely referring to them as examples of the way wordsmiths have twisted language for purposes other than communication. Including the excessive or redundant use of superlatives to give a false impression.



[Pauses and takes a deep breath] I was sooo tempted to slip a few extras into the above myself, but resisted the temptation... just.