Do I need a Domino? / What do you use yours for?

[RoyG]

There is one thing that really puts me off when I'm reading this and other forums, and that thing is "Flame Wars".

This thread is a classic example of a Forumite asking a straight forward and quite reasonable question, and a group of people with opposing views regarding the "correct" answer to the original question, getting into a war of words, fighting over what the right answer is.

Adopt a few basic rules .......

• Express your opinions.
• Respect the opinions of others.
• Don't agrue over whose opinion is right or wrong.
• Accept that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
• Don't encourage or participate in flame wars.

I trust that the readers of this post will accept this advice in the spirit in which it is given.

Regards,

Roy

[delbs]

There is one thing that really puts me off when I'm reading this and other forums, and that thing is "Flame Wars".

This thread is a classic example of a Forumite asking a straight forward and quite reasonable question, and a group of people with opposing views regarding the "correct" answer to the original question, getting into a war of words, fighting over what the right answer is.

Adopt a few basic rules .......

• Express your opinions.
• Respect the opinions of others.
• Don't agrue over whose opinion is right or wrong.
• Accept that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
• Don't encourage or participate in flame wars.

I trust that the readers of this post will accept this advice in the spirit in which it is given.

Regards,

Roy

I agree, This has just turned into nonsense. OP hope you have just gone out to buy the tool your after and start using it. Yuo could have made quite a few pieces by now if you stop reading the posts

[silentC]

So I guess it would be more accurately described as an "alternative to an end grain joint", which is what I was striving to say.

I think the term you are after is a butt joint, which is what you have without the M&T. Dowels are a type of reinforced butt joint, as are pocket-hole screws and biscuits.

If well made, both floating tenon and M&T are as strong as each other. Both are streets ahead of dowels, although some of the dowelling methods out there these days are very strong. Dominoes are very fast, seconds rather than minutes (or hours if you are slow like me). If it wasn't for the price of the tool and having to buy/make tenons to use with it and I was doing more than the odd door or panel, I would buy one tomorrow.

[silentC]

Statements like "every woodie already has the tools at home to make M & T joints" is not even an opinion, it's just conjecture

I would say it is a fairly safe assumption though, since all you need are a stiff-backed saw of some sort, a chisel of the appropriate width, and a drill and drill bit to suit - even the latter is not strictly speaking necessary. If you think back to woodwork class at school, that's all you had (in my case, anyway).

I think the point is that something like a Domino can help you achieve results that would otherwise take a lot of practice. M&T is a fundamental joint, and anyone who has done an apprenticeship back in the day would have spent hours making them. You get very good at it. On the other hand, when you are just doing this as a hobby, you may not have the time to develop those skills and so a Domino will cut you a very neat and tight-fitting joint in seconds.

I will say however that I have never used one, so that is only my perception. I also know some woodworkers whose work I admire (Wongo for example) who uses one and the results speak for themselves, although admittedly you can't see the joints.

[Christos]

Some posts have been deleted due to personal attacks to members along with other replies that no longer make sense after the original was deleted.

I request that members take the time to reread their posts before submitting said post. As soon as you start making personal comments about a member you have already lost your argument. There is nothing wrong with opposing thoughts.

[ian]

Now on Monday I had a "purist" cutting tenons (very poorly) with hand tools. She cut the tenons first. Due to some poor handsaw work, the tenons were 1/3rd the width of the board. I didn't hang around long enough to see her cut the mortices to suit the tenons. I left just shaking my head. How she was going to fine-tune the mortices was beyond me.

She was also using re-cycled wood and it was pretty hard. Good luck with that one.

But she was happy and probably believes her hand-cut joints make for heirloom furniture.

so if (or when) you see her again, you will be able to show her how to repair her undersize tenon by gluing a sawn veneer to one or both faces and trimming the newly fattened tenon to fit -- a technique she'll be able take through the rest if her woodworking journey

[ian]

So it may seem like a silly question but I was interested to hear from Domino users what you use it for and if it would be worth me investing in one. I'm not one to try and keep up with the Jones however we are planning an extension on our house and as a result I see the opportunity to undertake a number of projects myself to help save some dollars. I can justify the cost of the Domino (and perhaps a dust extractor (vac) if needed) if I will get enough use out of it for the projects I had in mind.

These are the sort of projects that I need to undertake:

• Walk in Robe Joinery - Standard melamine construction (although perhaps adding hardwood edging) typical open shelving, drawers and hang space;
• Vanity Units - Likely to be solid timber tops for vanity units - ie edge jointing 40-50mm thick boards for top;
• Dining Table - Large dining table (design and leg construction unknown but will require joining of the top);
• Buffet - Similar sort of design and details to this designer/manufacturer (http://www.bomboracustomfurniture.co...ards-buffets);
• TV cabinet - Similar design / construction to buffet.

Timbers are most likely going to be messmate or spotted gum.

I do have a biscuit jointer that I haven't used much, but the above projects are not the sort of work than I would typically undertake.

Hi Stinky

Cost wise, IMO it would be foolish to buy a Domino without also buying an extractor.

If you haven't gone out and made the purchase, I make the following comments


Walk in Robe Joinery - Standard melamine construction (although perhaps adding hardwood edging) typical open shelving, drawers and hang space;

a biscuit jointer, power drill and knock down fittings would IMO be the most useful tools for this project

Vanity Units - Likely to be solid timber tops for vanity units - ie edge jointing 40-50mm thick boards for top;

a decent set of sash cramps is what you really need for the tops
IMO any sort of alignment device, short of a tongue and groove or loose spline is just a pain to use

Dining Table - Large dining table (design and leg construction unknown but will require joining of the top);

see comment re vanity units
leg construction -- needs 8 M&Ts -- these are tricky if you haven't done rail to leg tenons before -- perhaps it should be the subject of a separate thread

Buffet - Similar sort of design and details to this designer/manufacturer
(http://www.bomboracustomfurniture.co...ards-buffets);

TV cabinet - Similar design / construction to buffet.

these look deceptively simple to make.

Can I suggest you prepare a design and look at options for the joints before you decide which tool or tools (if any) you need to buy to make the construction easier.

[Big Shed]

May I remind people what the topic of this thread is -

Do I need a Domino? / What do you use yours for?


Despite Christos' polite request for civility some people seem to think that they can take a thread off topic, bad enough in itself, and launch personal attacks on other forum members with the usual "mine is bigger than yours" carp.

So I have deleted those posts and any further off-topic and/or personal attack type posts will also be deleted.

If people persist in this behaviour we will have to review their forum privileges.

[ian]

Reposted following Big Shed's post above

Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot
So it may seem like a silly question but I was interested to hear from Domino users what you use it for and if it would be worth me investing in one. I'm not one to try and keep up with the Jones however we are planning an extension on our house and as a result I see the opportunity to undertake a number of projects myself to help save some dollars. I can justify the cost of the Domino (and perhaps a dust extractor (vac) if needed) if I will get enough use out of it for the projects I had in mind.

These are the sort of projects that I need to undertake:

• Walk in Robe Joinery - Standard melamine construction (although perhaps adding hardwood edging) typical open shelving, drawers and hang space;
• Vanity Units - Likely to be solid timber tops for vanity units - ie edge jointing 40-50mm thick boards for top;
• Dining Table - Large dining table (design and leg construction unknown but will require joining of the top);
• Buffet - Similar sort of design and details to this designer/manufacturer (http://www.bomboracustomfurniture.co...ards-buffets);
• TV cabinet - Similar design / construction to buffet.

Timbers are most likely going to be messmate or spotted gum.

I do have a biscuit jointer that I haven't used much, but the above projects are not the sort of work than I would typically undertake.

Hi Stinky

To satisfy Big Shed

I have used a Domino for several projects, including a chair.
I have used a biscuit jointer for several projects including aligning edge joints.
I used to own a biscuit jointer (a Makita) I no longer do.
I am quite confident at cutting M&Ts by hand, including haunch M&Ts
I am more than comfortable using dowels

Stinky
If you haven't gone out and made the purchase, I make the following comments

Cost wise,
IMO it would be foolish to buy a Domino without also buying an extractor.


Yourprojects
Walk in Robe Joinery - Standard melamine construction (although perhaps adding hardwood edging) typical open shelving, drawers and hang space;

a biscuit jointer, powerdrill and knock down fittings would IMO be the most useful tools for thisproject.
You might want to add a shelf hole drilling guide to your kit -- though withpatience you could easily make one using a drill press and a long piece ofdressed 2 x 2 hardwood.

whilst a Domino would substitute for the biscuit jointer, my experience is thatfor joining melamine boards or ply the "sloppyness" of a biscuit slothas some definite advantages over the domino pocket.

Vanity Units - Likely to be solid timber tops for vanity units - ie edge jointing 40-50mm thick boards for top;

a decent set of sash crampsis what you really need for the tops
IMO any sort of alignment device, short of a tongue and groove or loose splineis just too much of a pain to bother with.

Dining Table - Large dining table (design and leg construction unknown but will require joining of the top);

the top -- see comment revanity units
leg construction -- needs 8 M&Ts -- these are tricky if you haven't donerail to leg tenons before -- perhaps it should be the subject of a separatethread. To cut only 8 by machine I'd be looking at using a 1/2" router and shopmade template.

Buffet - Similar sort of design and details to this designer/manufacturer
(http://www.bomboracustomfurniture.co...ards-buffets);

TV cabinet - Similar design / construction to buffet.

both of these lookdeceptively simple to make, or really complex.
The key will be how the right angle joints are constructed and whether the frontsare edged veneer board or part of a solid wood panel.

My first guess is edged veneer board -- which would most likely imply the 90°joints are biscuits and screws from the underside.

If solid panels, the joints are likely to be carcass dovetails -- half blind,full blind or mitred if you want a really clean look.

Can I suggest you prepare a design and look at options for the joints beforeyou decide which tool or tools (if any) you need to buy to make theconstruction easier.

[cadas]

I'd convinced myself that I didn't need one.....until this thread..

Now just got to find the right time to sneak it from the car boot to the garage...

[nt900]

I'd convinced myself that I didn't need one.....until this thread..

Now just got to find the right time to sneak it from the car boot to the garage...

The neat thing is... once you have a few Festool Systainers, it gets easier to sneak another one or two in unnoticed.

[cadas]

No....no any more, they've changed the design of the systainer, it's got one huge green triangle on the front....

No chance of sneaking that one through

[dalejw]

Attaboy cadas!

[FenceFurniture]

No....no any more, they've changed the design of the systainer, it's got one huge green triangle on the front....

No chance of sneaking that one through

So spray paint it purple or summink - it'll be worth the extra effort.

[cadas]

Attaboy cadas!

Come on guys this is serious....

I don't know what festool are playing at making "New" boxes so different to old boxes, it's going to kill demand if you can't sneak them into a workshop.

Hoping to hell lie Nielsen don't change their boxes or I'm looking for a caravan to live in.