MEMBERS DECLINING

[Master Splinter]

Until Facebook provides the option to have a generic profile with no personally identifying information at all, it remains blocked at my router's firewall. Being somewhat introverted, I have zero need to couple myself to a social network. And as for chat, it has the problem of turning what I consider a non time dependant medium (I choose when to read and post) to one where my attendance is required at a schedule not defined by me. This simply doesn't appeal. If I want realtime chat, I can yell at the kids over Steam chat when we are playing an online game (doesn't matter if they are just in the next room, the concept is the same but there are slightly more expletives and teabaggings than there are in real life).

[BobL]

Until Facebook provides the option to have a generic profile with no personally identifying information at all, it remains blocked at my router's firewall. Being somewhat introverted, I have zero need to couple myself to a social network. . . . . .

So why post here?

[Master Splinter]

So why post here?

Because no-one else's opinions are as good as mine.

[PenTurner]

Greg, your post has raised a valid point, and it is great to see all the feedback; I still don't like the "Like" buttons, I think it doesn't reflect what the other person is really thinking, sometimes it is used just to let others know you have seen the post and acknowledge.
If you liked the post--WHY did you like it, was it an exceptional post?! was it different? did it reflect the usual standard,, OR--- yeah i saw your post, but really don't like it but I don't want to offend you so I pressed "Like"..OR--Just can't be bothered so I pressed "Like"
I LIKE real input, not a nebulous "LIKE", just like I want a real person answering the phone, not a phony "we really think your call is important--but blow you jack, just hold the line for 30 minutes until our understaffed poorly paid people can get to you"
So I won't click on LIKE for this thread, I just say, it is a good one, Amos

[ubeaut]

However if the forum ceased to exist due to loss of income I would be ticked right off.

Would a $XX per year membership fee help ? Or would that simply just drive more people away.

If the forum is under threat, I'd be happy to pay a fee for access to this forum.

Please phone or fax credit card details to 555-5555-5555 Ext 555 and I will gladly take $555 from you.

Thank you for the thought, but these forums are free to the world and will always remain so, as long as my bum points to the ground. As soon as we accept paid membership the members will want a say in running the forums and that will surely be the end of them. Hehehe.

We will survive. Have in the past and will continue to long into the future.

I believe this thread was originally started in regard to the PEN TURNING forum so I will address a concern or two towards that forum.

• I guess there probably are lots of pen turners using Facebook. But by the same token there are probably many more who hangout at IAP, Pen Turners Paradise and other pen turning haunts as well.
• I had a bit of a look back over the pen turning forum from today until Jan 2012. Quick skim of that forums showed me there are almost double the number of threads per day in the Pen Turning Forum now than there was 2 years ago or even 12 mths ago.
• Makes one think the "Members Declining" observation is probably more perceived than real.

Gawdelpus makes a very valid point that the new "Thanks" and "Likes" buttons may well reduce the numbers of "minimalist" posts we see. Consequently, posts may not be a significant way of defining Forum useage for future. However, I have to say that this has only been in place for a week so it has hardly had time to influence posts at this point in time.

The "Thank for this post" button is new, however the "Like this post" or "Like" button has been there for a couple of years. It hasn't made much of an impact on forum usage during the time it's been there. The biggest impacts are from mobile devices and the fact that they just don't work as well as they should with a forum like this one. I doubt they ever will. Mobile phones are the biggest problem closely followed by iPads or other small tablets with mobile device skins or apps like tapatalk instead of the full version.

Some of our other problems come from being one of the few forums that actually care enough to upgrade to the latest version of many programs so as not to be caught with the security risks associated with older and no longer supported programs.

The new translator (see bottom of all pages) will eventually bring in more and more new members with new ideas and new questions, etc but it will take quite some time for the translations to fully cache all the languages for all the threads and posts. It could take another month or more for all threads to be cached and once this is done it should only be a matter of time before we start to see some new blood.

Having said that, Chambezio's comment that there are a disproportionate spread of users over the age of 50 has to ring a bell somewhere. If no new blood is coming along and no new woodworkers emerging there will come a point where the Forum will start to decline.

On the question of the age, we used to have a really good base of younger people here but the older and not always so wiser members did a really good job of chasing them away by being spelling/grammar Nazis, antagonistic and in some instances downright rude, unfriendly and unwelcoming.

Hope this answers a few more questions posed or not.

Cheers - Neil

[BobL]

I like the like buttons because they declutter the forums. Prior to the like buttons there would be one informative post and the as many as half a dozen posts with one or two word replies or often just the good ole and lots of "+1".
This made it a PITA to read threads having to skip by all the dross.

The like buttons don't stop anyone posting something about why they liked it - well it certainly doesn't stop me anyway. I used to participate on another forum where they debated whether they would have like buttons or not. In the end they decided not to and I find myself going there less and less often.

[Uncle Al]

For me a "live chat" is me calling you on the phone and asking where I put the gouge? it was in my hand ten seconds ago and now it has disappeared!
Amos

Ah!, A brilliant way to get many people to look for the "lost pencil", could be a real time saver.

(Sorry to be a bit flippant, still coming to terms with a hand me down iphone from my daughter, who is fairly proud of Dad who has now pretty well mastered a hole in the wall (ATM)).

Alan...

[plantagenon]

[QUOTE=ubeaut;1749024]Please phone or fax credit card details to 555-5555-5555 Ext 555 and I will gladly take $555 from you.

Couldn't get through to the 555 number - must be all the members on there trying to donate money

[mach70]

Although being slightly younger than the average age round here, I'm not a fan of chat rooms. I do use Facebook and the chat function there but that is only a one on one chat. The benefit I find with that is that you can be chatting to several people at once all in their own chat window and no-one else (OK maybe the NSA) can see, that and your phone bill doesnt increase for doing so.

Below are a some comments on a couple of the changes that have occurred I'm not a fan of, but hey that is just my opinion.
- The Market Place/Auctions: not a fan of the new version. Havent used it in a while. Would like to see current open/active listings at the top instead of having to trawl thru them.
- Sponsor logos on individual sub forums & long sub forum descriptions make for a very long scroll down the page if you have all the headings open. I understand the need for it but.
- The style of the forum feels old school. To move between sub-forums you need to scroll all the way back to the top of the page, click on the forum button then select which forum then a sub-forum. Its not very "quick" and can feel like a chore. Here is a pic of another forum I use MustangTech.jpg the side menu's stay and only the middle section changes as you change sub-forums. It is very quick and easy to navigate. If a forum is not quick and easy to use new members will tire very quickly and bypass it. I find it at times to be "too hard/cumbersome" or I dont have the time so I mainly look at the Pen turning section. For the current "instant" generation, it needs to be easy and "instant" to use.

I think the forum has evolved from a Woodworking forum to almost a lets cater to everyone forum. This maybe a good thing if like myself you have interest in several area's or appreciate what others do in area's that you have little interest in, BUT, if you only have interest in one area it can be a turn off and a daunting place to visit. Also there seem to be a number of sub-forums that appear to have no action for months and one or two that have no action for years! Interestingly one of these is the sponsors forum, heck there are a couple of ones that haven't seen action since 2010! The member only area's, if you havent joined also appear to be dead.

I love this place and have found many many useful tips hint etc that have helped me enormously in my craft and I would not want changes that are going to make it less of a resource and reduce the interaction with like minded people.

Cheers

Shawn

[Bushmiller]

Shawn

I don't agree with everything you've said but I do very much compliment you on your constructive criticism. I particularly like your examples and reasoning.

Regards
Paul

[ubeaut]

I'm not going into defence mode here just replying to a few comments.

I understand speed can be an issue but these forums are running pretty quickly at the moment after an upgrade about a week ago. Anyone with speed problems it will most likely be your server or at your end and not the forums, unless you happen to be on at around 6:00 am or 1:00 am when we are doing backups.

- The Market Place/Auctions: not a fan of the new version. Havent used it in a while. Would like to see current open/active listings at the top instead of having to trawl thru them.

Appears to be working well now that people have become used to something completely new and different. There has never been "a current open/active listings" in the 10 + years we have had the market place going and I know it's a pain but deleting old ads causes search engine problems that could see us penalised. Also the program that runs the market place like most is a bit limited with what it can do and so are we.

- Sponsor logos on individual sub forums & long sub forum descriptions make for a very long scroll down the page if you have all the headings open. I understand the need for it but.

With the last major upgrade which included the tabbed forums across the top of the screen and the drop down when you hover on Forums we managed to shorten the front page by between 4 and 9 screen views depending on monitor size and settings. Could get rid of descriptions but not going to make a massive difference in scrolling. Could get rid of sponsors banners and charge a fee to cover the loss and keep the forums up and running. Took off all descriptions and Sponsors Banners for a look see. It made the difference of 1.5 screens. Hardly worth the effort

- The style of the forum feels old school. To move between sub-forums you need to scroll all the way back to the top of the page, click on the forum button then select which forum then a sub-forum. Its not very "quick" and can feel like a chore.

The forums may feel old school but looking at others forums WWF appears to me to be a lot less cluttered once you get into the forums and posts.
Yep it is a bit of a pain but not a lot we can do with it. Once again there are limits to what can be done and adding another side bar would make the main page and subsequently all other pages longer.

I had a look at the mustang forum and at the time I looked, there were 16 people on line there as opposed to 1643 on here. I'm sure 16 users instead of 1600+ will make for a slightly faster site. Yet strangely enough the load time for both forums was almost identical.

Have to leave for some appointments and probably won't be back on again tonight, but will continue with this follow-up when I can.

Cheers - Neil

[bwal74]

On the question of the age, we used to have a really good base of younger people here but the older and not always so wiser members did a really good job of chasing them away by being spelling/grammar Nazis, antagonistic and in some instances downright rude, unfriendly and unwelcoming.

Hope this answers a few more questions posed or not.

Cheers - Neil

Hi,

Firstly, I'm not at all interested in a live chat room.

Secondly, if there's a decline in membership early or late in the year I believe it's simply because of that time of the year (Xmas and Holidays etc).

Thirdly, I must be showing my age because it really annoys me when I read my teenage kids spelling/grammar on the E devices (computers/phones/pads etc) I always correct them and tell them we bought them up better then that.

I like this forum and will continue to use it when I can.

Ben.

[mach70]

Thanks for the detailed response Neil.

As for the speed of the forum no issues there and generally I find that any issue with response times is to do with my Telstra "sometimes" connection. I was more reffering to the speed at which you can navigate thru the forum. The mustang site is no where near the size of WWF, but I find it quicker to navigate due to the side bars and not having to come right the way back up the page. Its just something that I find easier and quicker.

Cheers

Shawn

[Evanism]

-I like the older blokes. I'm not sure if I've met any grammar nazis, but there have been a few "occasions" but these seemed minor upon reflection
- it would be nice to ID the poster a bit more so I can approach the post accordingly e.g Male 44, 3 years exp.
- I REALLY dislike the design. I understand it's a generic package, but as a professional software programmer and 20 year Internet web designer, I can assure you it isn't THAT hard.
- need a tag cloud for searching
- put Ajax into the search for predictive searching
- show popular search terms

One last point, I really dislike the design. ) Hire it out as a $300 job to one of those slave-factory design websites and get a few pitches.

[BobL]

-I like the older blokes. I'm not sure if I've met any grammar nazis, but there have been a few "occasions" but these seemed minor upon reflection
- it would be nice to ID the poster a bit more so I can approach the post accordingly e.g Male 44, 3 years exp.

What if that other person doesn't want to be ID'd?
I would like members to specify state location though - "Australia" drives me nuts.

- I REALLY dislike the design. I understand it's a generic package, but as a professional software programmer and 20 year Internet web designer, I can assure you it isn't THAT hard.

My view is if it ain't broke it don't need fixin' or fiddling but I'd like to hear where you think it's broken.

- need a tag cloud for searching
- put Ajax into the search for predictive searching
- show popular search terms

I thought we had a tag cloud at one stage - but I never used it.
Anyway, I've given up with the search tool. Google does such a good job so I don't see any point in spending any effort on an in-house search tool.

One last point, I really dislike the design. ) Hire it out as a $300 job to one of those slave-factory design websites and get a few pitches.

What - so they can fill it full of holes to sell to someone who wants to play funny buggers?