This conversation REALLY happened - no enhancement required

[FenceFurniture]

Do you take cards?

[rustynail]

My ferrules have arrived.

They have an ID of approximately half an inch. They really do have an ID even though they are made of brass TUBE.

They also have an OD but I could not be bothered measuring it. It looks ok. Thats all that bothers me about the OD on this particular project.

They came from a forumite who saw this thread and contacted me by PM. He cut them to length and deburred them and posted them to me for a very reasonable price, saving me from having to drive around town probably spending the same amount in petrol and then having to cut them myself. I am very happy with what I got. I wont identify the person as he arranged it all privately by PM but he is free to identify himself if he wants to. Either way, thanks Mate.

Cheers

Doug

Well there you go. You've got your tube and you now know what to ask for in the future. It can't get much better than that.

[doug3030]

Well there you go. You've got your tube and you now know what to ask for in the future. It can't get much better than that.

Yep, I asked for what I wanted and I got what I wanted.

I wouldn't ask the question any differently next time because it was the only way to describe what I wanted.

I will, however, be more careful as to who I ask it of.

Cheers

Doug

[rustynail]

That will limit your options.

[Bushmiller]

Yep, I asked for what I wanted and I got what I wanted.

I wouldn't ask the question any differently next time because it was the only way to describe what I wanted.

I will, however, be more careful as to who I ask it of.

Cheers

Doug

Doug

OD and wall thickness? (That's for the tube not the salesman's skull ) .

Regards
Paul

[doug3030]

That will limit your options.

Yep, it will limit it to those who can deliver the goods and cut out the time-wasters, regardless of how amusing thy can be. No point in contacting those that are unwilling to help, is there?

So, tell me RustyNail, who seems to be the only one who thinks I was being unreasonable, how would YOU have phrased the initial inquiry given that the OD was not important, but an approximate ID was? Remember that from my initial description I did in a roundabout way get exactly what I wanted so the directions were clear enough for everyone who posted in the thread to understand what I wanted INCLUDING YOU.


Cheers

Doug

[doug3030]

Doug

OD and wall thickness? (That's for the tube not the salesman's skull ) .

Regards
Paul

Yes, Paul, but when I talk about the density of the population I am not necessarily referring to how many of them live in a given square kilometer.

CHeers

Doug

[rustynail]

Yep, it will limit it to those who can deliver the goods and cut out the time-wasters, regardless of how amusing thy can be. No point in contacting those that are unwilling to help, is there?

So, tell me RustyNail, who seems to be the only one who thinks I was being unreasonable, how would YOU have phrased the initial inquiry given that the OD was not important, but an approximate ID was? Remember that from my initial description I did in a roundabout way get exactly what I wanted so the directions were clear enough for everyone who posted in the thread to understand what I wanted INCLUDING YOU.


Cheers

Doug

Hi Doug,
Thank you for your question. In a past life, I had the unenviable task of dealing with the public and government in trade related matters. Inquiries often became confusing due to the enquirer not being familiar with the correct terminology. Terms such as thingamejig, watsy or gizzmo tended to be a little vague and valuable time would be lost in trying to identify the item in question. The introduction of metric also created some further confusion when interposed with imperial. In the mid 80s the NSW Government Standards Committee decided to instruct manufacturers and industry to develop product specifications with standard terminology. I was one of the manufacturing representatives involved.
Now to answer your question. I would have asked for pipe as pipe is measured in ID. That simple.
Granted the salesperson could have been a little more informative rather than just repeating his original statement that tube doesn't have an ID, but he was probably sick and tired of the ill informed and wasn't prepared to take on an educational roll. Having served in that capacity I have empathy.
You are quite correct in pointing out the fact everyone understood your requirement (including me.) But that doesn't detract from the fact that what you were asking was technically incorrect. Therefore, there is no justification in holding the salesperson up for general ridicule or questioning his mental capacity, as some seem to deem necessary. He was correct if not articulate.
Life is an ongoing learning curve. Rarely does a day go by we are not offered the chance to learn something new.
This has been yours.

[A Duke]

"If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" In the same vein if Joe Public gives you a pain in the proverbial don't take a job as a counter hopper. Find one where you are hidden in a back office without a phone. Don't put your customers off, the guy wanting a $1 collet today might have a few grand order for his boss next week.
Just my two bobs worth

[doug3030]

Now to answer your question. I would have asked for pipe as pipe is measured in ID. That simple.

Ok, so lets assume that I can start again.

I have looked at his online catalog and have determined that he has brass tube, but there is no mention of brass pipe at all.


It would probably have gone like this:

Me: Hi, I am after some brass pipe with an ID of about half an inch.

Him: I don't have any brass pipe mate, I only have brass tube.

Me: Great. Do you have any with an ID of about half an inch?

Him: Tube doesn't have an ID.

Me: Yes I know. That's why I asked for pipe. But seeing as how you have no brass pipe do you have a piece of brass tube that might suit. I am not all that worried about the OD, but it is important to my project that the ID be about half an inch.

Him: tube doesn't have an ID


Now we are back at the original start-point and the conversation will go the same way as before. All we have done is prolong the agony.

Cheers

Doug

[DSEL74]

Hi Doug,
Thank you for your question. In a past life, I had the unenviable task of dealing with the public and government in trade related matters. Inquiries often became confusing due to the enquirer not being familiar with the correct terminology. Terms such as thingamejig, watsy or gizzmo tended to be a little vague and valuable time would be lost in trying to identify the item in question. The introduction of metric also created some further confusion when interposed with imperial. In the mid 80s the NSW Government Standards Committee decided to instruct manufacturers and industry to develop product specifications with standard terminology. I was one of the manufacturing representatives involved.

I think your look at this through prejudices based on your own experience!

Now to answer your question. I would have asked for pipe as pipe is measured in ID. That simple.

He doesn't sell pipe I am sure he would say as it was a hobby shop not a plumbing supply.

Granted the salesperson could have been a little more informative rather than just repeating his original statement that tube doesn't have an ID, but he was probably sick and tired of the ill informed and wasn't prepared to take on an educational roll. Having served in that capacity I have empathy.
You are quite correct in pointing out the fact everyone understood your requirement (including me.) But that doesn't detract from the fact that what you were asking was technically incorrect.

Sorry but the sales person saying tube doesn't have an ID……….That is incorrect!! Tube may not generally be sold by a specified ID but it certainly has one.

I come from a design background and have even been involved with designing and producing extrusions where I had to supply the die drawings for manufacture. The crucial dimension is the crucial dimension regardless of what is generally used by people per industry. For example plastic plumbing pipe comes in a variety of sizes but wall thickness, and external dia are largely irrelevant because there is an industry standard and it only comes in set parameters so you can easily specify by one dimension only. Bass tube can come in various nominal wall thicknesses, with internal and external varying as a result. Pipe and tube are largely in terms of hobby requirements the same thing therefore asking for something that meets your critical dimension is a perfectly acceptable question.

If the sales person had gotten off his high horse rather than repeating an incorrect statement the issue could have very quickly been resolved…..OD - wall thickness = ID. Yes there is an id if not it would be rod/ round bar and not have a wall thickness either.

So I would say it is the sales person who needed to be educated not Doug as you suggest.

Therefore, there is no justification in holding the salesperson up for general ridicule or questioning his mental capacity, as some seem to deem necessary. He was correct if not articulate.
Life is an ongoing learning curve. Rarely does a day go by we are not offered the chance to learn something new.
This has been yours

.

Sorry I repeat the the salesperson WAS INCORRECT saying tube doesn't have an ID……….That is incorrect!! Tube may not generally be sold by a specified ID but it certainly has one.

[rustynail]

Could it be possible the salesman was a little less than articulate by saying tube has no ID when what he meant was tube is not listed or nominated with an ID? The same could be said for pipe not having an OD.
If the original request had been for pipe there may have been every chance the customer would have been told we dont sell pipe, only tube. The informed customer would know the difference between the two and proceeded from there. It has become obvious the purchaser was not aware of the difference between tube and pipe at the time of the original discussion, but I am sure he is now. So, therefore is now educated. Hopefully, the salesman has also gained something from the experience and will rethink his response in future.
Prejudice plays no part here. The purpose of setting up standards was to prevent confusion within industry and, to a large extent, has been successful.
In this case, the critical dimension is determined by product description.
There are so many things that are known by different names in different places, often state to state. It all adds to the confusion. So, when an explanation of differentiation is forthcoming would it not be prudent to take it on board rather than shoot the messenger?

[doug3030]

OD - wall thickness = ID.

OD - (wall thickness * 2) = ID.


RustyNail, you don't happen to have a brother who runs a hobby shop in Melbourne by any chance, do you?

[Sturdee]

It has become obvious the purchaser was not aware of the difference between tube and pipe at the time of the original discussion, but I am sure he is now.

That was obvious but the salesman should have realized this and explained this to help the customer. He could have been helpful and gain a sale. In these times every sale is important and a salesman upsetting a customer will do so at it's peril. Gone are the days that you can treat a customer as an idiot for with the internet one upset customer can, by using YouTube or Facebook, bring a big company down. If this was posted on Facebook it would go viral within the hour.

Prejudice plays no part here.

All I can say that to me that sounds like a load of codswallop for your prejudice seems to be showing.


Peter.

[A Duke]

Does YouTube have an ID?