Water divining

[Master Splinter]

Here's a different perspective the subject.

TT

That's actually not CSIRO's thoughts, thats a piece in the SMH written by a person purporting to be a water diviner right around the date that "The Water Diviner" film was released. I suspect it is a made up piece supplied to newspaper outlets as part of the publicity for the film.

The CSIRO get a brief mention in the final paragraph - "The mystery could be solved by CSIRO research, which investigated old bush yarns about gold growing on trees. "

However, CSIRO research would have to use the same 'flawed' scientific tests that have failed to find any dowsing ability in people to date, and we'd have to rely on anecdotal evidence...

Interestingly, the Liberal Party's newly appointed head of the CSIRO, entrepreneur, venture capitalist and possibly Australia's most gullible scientician, Dr Larry Marshall, thinks 'there could be something in water divining'. It's good to see that Australia is getting a good start to be the first country in the world to reach peak stupid!

[Master Splinter]

Now that tiger repelling rock...

While I'd love to check my rock out with the test you propose, I think it wouldn't work properly around the tigers at Toronga Park, as those tigers are not natural, in-the-wild tigers, they are all captive and have been around humans for many years - and captive tigers really confuse the tiger-repelling-rock's ability to repel, as they are not in their natural state.

However, as I have seen absolutely no tigers around my house since I have had the rock, I am utterly convinced of its action and value. A few friends/relatives of mine have not seen tigers around their houses either, and are also convinced by how well the rock must be working.

As for divining tests, what about the Water Board records, which simply recorded the number of wells sunk, method of location, and success or failure of the bore?

Those weren't tests, they were just pure records of how the drilling location was decided, and the result of the bore.

Those results were uncontaminated by any artificial test environment - it was just 'drill here' and 'water/no water' results.

[Twisted Tenon]

That's actually not CSIRO's thoughts, thats a piece in the SMH written by a person purporting to be a water diviner right around the date that "The Water Diviner" film was released. I suspect it is a made up piece supplied to newspaper outlets as part of the publicity for the film.

The CSIRO get a brief mention in the final paragraph - "The mystery could be solved by CSIRO research, which investigated old bush yarns about gold growing on trees. "

However, CSIRO research would have to use the same 'flawed' scientific tests that have failed to find any dowsing ability in people to date, and we'd have to rely on anecdotal evidence...

Interestingly, the Liberal Party's newly appointed head of the CSIRO, entrepreneur, venture capitalist and possibly Australia's most gullible scientician, Dr Larry Marshall, thinks 'there could be something in water divining'. It's good to see that Australia is getting a good start to be the first country in the world to reach peak stupid!

Hi MS
Just to clarify, Jan Mayman doesn't purport to be a diviner she claims she is. She is also a Gold Walkley Award winner and has some cred as an investigative journalist. I reackon your right that this piece was influenced by the movie. It's a topical subject. Dr Larry Marshal is as you say a successful entrepreneur. I think he is keeping an open mind and was accurately quoted by Mayman. Mayman may be referring to an interview Marshal did for ABC Rural in October 2014. He coped a shellahttp://oncirculation.com/2015/01/07/...lope/#commentscking for it. Marshal seems to think that flowing water may send out electromagnetic fields which are picked up by the diviner. He is supported in this by Professor Phillip Jennings

There are a lot of anecdotes about Dousing being posted, but there a quite a few people on this thread who claim to be doing it. I'm happy to wait for conclusive proof one way or the other. I do think the Dick Smith test is too artificial and not a true test. I thought so when they set it up in 1980. I think we need something like the Sceptics Society because there are a lot of duds out there. My thoughts are if you pay for a dowser to come to your property to find water and they do, it's money well spent. Surely they don't accept the money if they fail to find the water?

TT

[wireliner]

I have heard about the EM theory as to why divining works and it kind of makes sense. As I have said, I only find where the water is moving the quickest. Pipelines are easy because they are shallow. Metal lines are easy to find, even if there is no flow. Maybe the metal holds the charge??? PVC and poly lines are not as reactive to me but I can still find them. The simple fact is that divining does work for some people. I'm sure there are charlatans out there but many are not. Further more to the EM theory, maybe that's why I can't wear a watch. My parents gave up trying when I was in school. They always died within days on me. Even the non battery powered ones.

[rustynail]

Yesterday, I had the pleasure of travelling to Kulnura on the central coast of NSW to pick up an orchard slasher I had purchased on Gumtree. While talking to the farmer, we managed to get onto the subject of water divining. He informed me that when they purchased the property, about eleven years ago, they made quite a few attempts at drilling for water. Unsuccessfully. A local diviner offered his services. The farmer thought, "why not?" The resulting bore continues to supply good water to the property.
Yes, I know - anecdotal, good luck, sheer chance. But the fact remains, where the wires swung in there was water.
I have faith in my ability to find water. I am not so sure about the gentleman offering pet rocks for sale. I think we may have found our charlatan.

[rustynail]

I have heard about the EM theory as to why divining works and it kind of makes sense. As I have said, I only find where the water is moving the quickest. Pipelines are easy because they are shallow. Metal lines are easy to find, even if there is no flow. Maybe the metal holds the charge??? PVC and poly lines are not as reactive to me but I can still find them. The simple fact is that divining does work for some people. I'm sure there are charlatans out there but many are not. Further more to the EM theory, maybe that's why I can't wear a watch. My parents gave up trying when I was in school. They always died within days on me. Even the non battery powered ones.

A lady school teacher I introduced to divining and went on to be very good at it, was like you and unable to wear a watch. Personally, I dont have any issue.

[Twisted Tenon]

Yesterday, I had the pleasure of travelling to Kulnura on the central coast of NSW to pick up an orchard slasher I had purchased on Gumtree. While talking to the farmer, we managed to get onto the subject of water divining. He informed me that when they purchased the property, about eleven years ago, they made quite a few attempts at drilling for water. Unsuccessfully. A local diviner offered his services. The farmer thought, "why not?" The resulting bore continues to supply good water to the property.
Yes, I know - anecdotal, good luck, sheer chance. But the fact remains, where the wires swung in there was water.
I have faith in my ability to find water. I am not so sure about the gentleman offering pet rocks for sale. I think we may have found our charlatan.

There's lots of interesting water up around there Rusty Nail. They reackon it comes through from the Blue Mountains. Coca Cola have a water bottling plant up there. The water seems to follow channels in the sand stone. Well that's what a couple of locals tell me. Which may account for why the water is selective as to where it surfaces.

TT

[rustynail]

While I'd love to check my rock out with the test you propose, I think it wouldn't work properly around the tigers at Toronga Park, as those tigers are not natural, in-the-wild tigers, they are all captive and have been around humans for many years - and captive tigers really confuse the tiger-repelling-rock's ability to repel, as they are not in their natural state.

However, as I have seen absolutely no tigers around my house since I have had the rock, I am utterly convinced of its action and value. A few friends/relatives of mine have not seen tigers around their houses either, and are also convinced by how well the rock must be working.

As for divining tests, what about the Water Board records, which simply recorded the number of wells sunk, method of location, and success or failure of the bore?

Those weren't tests, they were just pure records of how the drilling location was decided, and the result of the bore.

Those results were uncontaminated by any artificial test environment - it was just 'drill here' and 'water/no water' results.

Oh, so you're an expert on tigers as well?

[wireliner]

A lady school teacher I introduced to divining and went on to be very good at it, was like you and unable to wear a watch. Personally, I dont have any issue.

Very interesting. I'm not alone then!

[rustynail]

There's lots of interesting water up around there Rusty Nail. They reackon it comes through from the Blue Mountains. Coca Cola have a water bottling plant up there. The water seems to follow channels in the sand stone. Well that's what a couple of locals tell me. Which may account for why the water is selective as to where it surfaces.

TT

Sandstone usually produces good water. Yes the aquifers are often quite narrow, which makes for interesting divining as they can easily be overlooked or missed. If the sandstone is under a layer of shale the water is often salty. Sometimes you can be lucky and find the salt diminishes as the bore is pumped. Also the presence of shale in the bore can give a false indication of salt on initial proving of the bore as the water is being forced up by air and is in direct contact with wall of the bore. This is eliminated once a casing and pipe line direct from the pump are installed.

[Master Splinter]

Oh, so you're an expert on tigers as well?

No, I'm an expert on my tiger repelling rock. It's the same tiger repelling rock that Lisa Simpson used in The Simpsons episode 'Much Apu About Nothing'

Homer: Well, there's not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is sure doing its job.
Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, sweetie.
Lisa: Dad, what if I were to tell you that this rock keeps away tigers.
Homer: Uh-huh, and how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work. It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: I see.
Lisa: But you don't see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock.

See also: http://www.getelastic.com/lisa-simps...ply-causation/

[Greg Ward]

The study of science in its many disciplines is quite difficult. Many use their 'common sense' to make sense of the world, not a 3-5 years intensive university study, so communicating between those with knowledge and those with belief is a major problem.

My wife seriously believes that a close friend of hers astral travels. My smart a... comments that it must save on airfares falls very flat, so we don't go there any more.

There are many who seriously believe vaccination is evil and some global plot, those who think fluoride is a monster element and those who believe that the moon landings were a CIA fraud. And the internet allows anyone with basic computer skills to find like minded believers to reinforce their beliefs.

So why is there such a gap between knowledge and belief?

Part of the problem is that scientists are poor communicators, (as are many politicians).
Charismatic leaders who can communicate are rare and usually end up in the exotic spectrum.

We hate being hectored, (it all started with mum), we hate being lectured to, we don't like smart people (unless they be doctors and our health is an issue), we don't like being spoken down to and as we age, our prejudices and beliefs become stronger and we are less likely to listen.

Take climate change. Most of us accept that climate change is a real possibility, but as to it being the most serious matter affecting mankind........, we basically say " tell that to the Syrians or the Tibetans", then as we listen to the condescending zealots who tell us, the 'great unwashed', how stupid we are...... we say "get stuffed" and we revel in our dismissal of their thinking.

Sceptics also suffer from zealotry, they preach to the converted and haven't yet worked out how to sell, not preach.

Communication and education is the only way forward.

This matter of water divination ('divine' is a separate subject) is not a life threatening matter, so we can have a general discussion to no real end....., but there are serious matters of life and death where knowledge and belief are combatants.......

So what?

Please use reputable bodies such as the CSIRO or universities to guide your thinking. don't be lazy in research, don't accept those with similar thinking on the internet as wise, consider the thoughts of others, use scientific knowledge to assist and if you want to use your common sense..... fine, but also be a little wary of your own conclusions and be prepared to accept you may be wrong.


Damn...... now I'm preaching as well......

Regards


Greg

[rustynail]

Greg, I could not agree with you more. Only one point I would make; in some cases finding or not finding water has been life threatening. Or if you like, lifestyle threatening. Where without water people and livestock could not continue to function.

[rustynail]

No, I'm an expert on my tiger repelling rock. It's the same tiger repelling rock that Lisa Simpson used in The Simpsons episode 'Much Apu About Nothing'

Homer: Well, there's not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is sure doing its job.
Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, sweetie.
Lisa: Dad, what if I were to tell you that this rock keeps away tigers.
Homer: Uh-huh, and how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work. It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: I see.
Lisa: But you don't see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock.

See also: http://www.getelastic.com/lisa-simps...ply-causation/

So now you are telling me this rock you have has celebrity appeal as it belonged to Lisa Simpson - an animated cartoon character?
Who's delusional?

[snowyskiesau]

Apparently when you're given the 'gift' of water divining, you lose your sense of humour