Kids Behaviours, who is to blame?

[Sebastiaan56]

This may be off-track a little, and I apologise in advance, but I'm sure that teachers also need to take a few lessons from history. I refer specifically to the huge numbers of people in our society who were misjudged by teachers and were "written off" as "average" or "not likely to succeed at a high leverl" and so on.

I listen daily to an ABC radio program by Richard Fidler, called "Conversation Hour" (11 am). It absolutely amazes me the number of highly successful people he talks with were rejected in such a way by judgemental teachers. Surgeons, Billionaires, writers, actors, lawyers, (yes, and even programmers) were all told at school that they were "average".

Start another thread, its a great topic

[Zed]

Ross,

Agree with what you say totally. I listened to the conversation hour and they had some "full on" african american guy recently who was a druggie and was on "last chance" and thus turned his life around... and now is the head honcho for some druggie institute in Australia. what makes him even more interesting given his background, you would think, that his teaching/experience would allow him to be a great role model. (He probably is) ALAS hsi own kid died of a H overdose..

Goes back to some previous points; all you can do is try to do the best u can. kids have to take responsibility for thier own actions... harsh lesson for the above and his (only) kid.

I get very upset when I hear about parents losing thier kids and most unfortunatly "only" kids. my heart goes out to them.

Also off tangent - i went to the macca's charity ball the last weekend and they always play a vid of sick kids and how they are affected/helped... I'd had a few drinks by then and the vid affects me every year... I get quite emotional and need to hug my kid!!! My wife has excused me from watching the vid next year.... I reckon the donations after the vid are thru the roof for a few minutes while those memories are fresh in parents minds....

I never thought I would say it; but thank mother earth for macca's charity house!

[bitingmidge]

Unconditional love is all any kid wants. End of story.

That's all a kid wants alright.

And part of giving unconditional love is setting parameters to enable the kid to grow into a responsible human being. A parent has greater responsibility than just to love a kid. Love comes naturally.

There wouldn't be many of us round here now if our ancestors had adopted the "unconditional love" approach to teaching their kids about the dangers of Raptors!

It's OK to flog a kid unconditionally.

P

[silentC]

Actually all my kid wants is more playstation time and more Lego pirates. I spent months making him a cupboard to put them in. The first thing he wanted to do was hide in it. But it does give me an idea. Sensory deprivation is supposed to be good for the soul, isn't it?

[munruben]

I dont have it all, I do know that kids model the behaviour of those around them and particularly those they respect. Essentially they feed our own behaviour back to us until they reach the age when peers count for more, teenage years I think,

Exactly, as I said earlier, children behave the way they know you want them to behave and I dont think we can blame peer pressure. If it was true that the child was so easily influenced in such a short time frame, how come the values that we, as parents have spent more than ten years teaching them, are so easily discarded by some children.
I think the truth lies in your statement above "they feed our own behaviour back to us" because they know that is what you want to see, thats how you want them to behave. When they get older and they don't have to answer to mum or dad, then, I truly believe, the real person comes to life.

[Sebastiaan56]

Exactly, as I said earlier, children behave the way they know you want them to behave and I dont think we can blame peer pressure. If it was true that the child was so easily influenced in such a short time frame, how come the values that we, as parents have spent more than ten years teaching them, are so easily discarded by some children.
I think the truth lies in your statement above "they feed our own behaviour back to us" because they know that is what you want to see, thats how you want them to behave. When they get older and they don't have to answer to mum or dad, then, I truly believe, the real person comes to life.

Hi John,

by modelling Im talking about a more unconcious process. Some examples; start yawning in a meeting, 5 minutes later everyone is yawning too. Similarly one uni class I attended the students increasingly sat on the LHS of the room, so where did the lecturer gravitate to? If violence is used kids learn violence, if they observe patience and tolerance they will tend to be more tolerant etc. Same for alcohol/drug use, gambling, religion etc. Violence is endemic in our culture, football, politics, media, computor games etc. So violence becomes an OK response because they see it all around them. I truly believe they are little parrots, they show us how we behave.

Teenage years, things change. Peer pressure becomes progressively more important. It isnt helped by the hormone thing. Rebelling is a valid way of determining who you want to be, pity it can be destructive. And............ the big caveat........... "all kids are different"

Totally agree about your comment about getting away from their parents to become real people. I'll go one further and say it seldom happens before someone is 40yo or until there is a major upheaval that reorients priorities. (apols to the younger people on the list). Sometimes it never happens.

A lot of this is theory and observation, my boys are 9 & 11 so I have some way to go, but I hope they have the backbone to choose a smart peer group when the time comes,

Sebastiaan

[LotteBum]

This is such an interesting topic and I've read with interest all of your comments on the subject.

My personal opinion is that each kid is different. My sister had an awful lot of respect for authority. I, on the other hand, did not. When I did something bad, my parents adopted the same principle as they would with my sister - they'd flog me. It just made me more and more angry and far, far worse. At the end of it, I would be regretting the horrible things I said to my parents whilst at the same time resenting them for the flogging.

What I needed was, when I was naughty, for my folks to ask me to go to my room for x amount of time (depending on age) to think about what I had done. On the odd occassion they did this, it worked. I would come out from my room, having sincerely thought about my actions, and I would sincerely apologise (I was always taught to mean it when I apologise).

Tailoring parenting to children's needs is the key, I think. I am of the opinion that there really is no need for hitting children (unless it is a smack on the fingers to get them away from danger etc), and mutual respect is what should be fostered. Children need to respect their parents wishes, but at the same time, I think it is important for parents to respect *SOME* of their children's wishes.

I am struggling a little with a lot of things, as I recently found out I am pregnant. In about 25 weeks, we will have a little one and I have a lot of thoughts about parenting that I would like to embrace. For instance, television is the root of a lot of evil in children. So many of those 'kids' movies feature violence and bad language, and I really do not think that this is appropriate - particularly not unsupervised. A kids movie should be something children watch on special occasions with their family - not something that is implemented as a subsitute babysitter when the parents are too busy to look after them, or do not wish to look after them. The smart thing would be to take them to a park, where you can sit whilst they play.

I also think children need to learn about common courtesy (please, thank you, excuse me, may I etc) and respect for other people. Children are too aware of their rights, and that comes from parents who wrap them in cotton so that they turn into the little sissies they are these days.

As a migrant from Denmark, I've seen two sides of the story. Over there, we didn't wear uniforms, called our teachers by first name and were taught to stick together as a class (we also weren't shuffled around every year like kids here are) and look after eachother - which we did. We also had a lot of respect for our teachers. Coming out here was like stepping into the stone age. We had to wear ugly uniforms, call our mumu wearing teachers by surname and behave like robots. I found this very difficult, as I was used to being respected and liked by my teachers. Instead, teachers here would scream at us when we were noisy, make us write lines, give detention etc. Over there, the teachers would phone our parents, who would then sit down and have a good chat with us that night. That solved problems. Being sent to the office and screamed at by a mumu wearng headmaster with a face like a chicken *rse, did not.

I think a lot of what is happening these days, is that parents are working long hours and justify this by buying extravagant gifts for their children. If both parents have to work (which I realise that some do), why not forgive yourself, accept that children have fun at after school care, and spend the weekends on them, rather than dragging them around to shopping centres which all kids hate anyway...

[Christopha]

BehviourS? Is this from a teacher???
Personally I am a perfect parent.... I will get my sons to post that on here too, just as soon as they get their extradition problems sorted out.

[ss_11000]

SS please don't use spastic in that way l also work with people with disabilty and its a bit like the nigger word to them.

sorry bout that. i didnt mean any offence

No not at all, especially if you are 15.

thanx mate

[Zed]

Hi John,

If violence is used kids learn violence, if they observe patience and tolerance they will tend to be more tolerant etc. Same for alcohol/drug use, gambling, religion etc. Violence is endemic in our culture, football, politics, media, computor games etc. So violence becomes an OK response because they see it all around them.
Sebastiaan

I gotta disagree with you there mate, I was subject to horrendous violence. I wont go into details but think about fishing poles and naked torso's - multiply that a few times.... Those of you that have met me would have an inkling - My "father" is the same size as I and I was between the ages of 4 - 15.... a bit of a late bloomer.

having said that; I am very non violent - I can talk a tough game, Ill grant you that. BUT I have not been violent for many many years and never have I provoked violence against myself. I have on a number of occasions defended the weak and/or abused tho. pity the offender, im ashamed of some o th stuff I did.

Im living proof countering your opinion in this regard.

i think the prime thing to learn here is that kids are different - they dont all respond to violence in kind.

[namtrak]

There wouldn't be many of us round here now if our ancestors had adopted the "unconditional love" approach to teaching their kids about the dangers of Raptors!

A quick revision of your anthropology will show that humans weren't around during the time of the dinosaurs.

But seriously, so many kids only receive love based on a complicated and unspoken set of conditions.

I will love you as long as your room is clean.

I will love you as long you don't end up on the dole.

I will love you as long as I can live my life vicariously through you.

I will love your school work as long as you improve it.

I will love you as long as I approve of your friends.

So many kids grow up believing they have to earn the love of those around them. That their position within their family, school, peer group is conditional upon their behaviour. etc

[Zed]

vicariously

PRECARIOUSLY mate - totally dif meaning!!!! lol!!

so long as u didnt mean vivaciously!!

[namtrak]

No monkey man, I actually did mean vicariously!!

Parents who want their kids to grow up and achieve things they never did.

BTW Zed, did you have a part in this website?

[Zed]

no, nice hijack!

[Burnsy]

A couple of questions for Burnsy and other teachers ...
When faced with an unruly student in your classroom, what do you do?

No easy answer to this one Derek, as I know you know, each kid is different and requires a different response. The response does need however to be transparent so that the other kids view it as resonable and do not feel that someone is getting special treatment. The only straight answer I could give is in a case where a student is endangering others, themselves or staff and that is removal of the danger, through restraint if required.

When students fail to show any respect for your efforts at discipline, what can you do?

Not alot, if they are a child who has active parents then a call home or simply the threat of one can help. This is assuming of course that the child is aware of what they have done wrong, why it was wrong and the need for consequences, some need these spelt out to them others pick it up themselves.

Do you seek out the support of your head/principal, and if so what does this person do?

Yes, we have a system of using red cards when assistance is required. The Admin are very supportive and will increase the consequence if students refuse to follow instructions or do as they were initially asked.

Do you feel that the teachers in your school act as a team, and will unite in mutual support to enforce "consequences of actions"?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Yes, our school would not function without everyone supporting each other. We only have one Deputy and that is seldom enough so many of us spend our DOTT (Duties Other Than Teaching) time running around after red cards and helping out.

PS Much better day today and it was woodwork afternoon to top it off