Instant v stoarge Howt water service

[HappyHammer]

So.....solar is not an option?

He lives in Melbourne

What's it like to need a gas heating system

HH.

[rhancock]

I grew up with a instantaneous gas system about 20 years ago in Britain that also did the central heating, which gave the hot water priority, so if everyone had a shower in the morning, the house gradually got colder and colder... We installed a new gas instantaneous hot water system ( no need for central heating in Brisbane) about 3 years ago, and cut the bills by a huge chunk - even adding on a gas stove top and a gas convection room heater for the Brisbane 'winter' we spend $15 a month on mains gas. We never run out of water. I can put the washing machine on, then put the dishwasher on, then turn on the taps and still not get any complaints from the wife in the shower.

[Ben (TM)]

I just went down the instant road on my renovation - which after doing the sums seemed to make the most sense for me energy wise. I chose the Rinnai Infinity 26, which cost me $1150.

What I hadn't factored into the equation is some thieving mongrel stealing it from my wall last night. We are at the tail end of what has been a 14 month project on my first home that I have done as much as humanly possible myself to save on costs and about 3 weeks from moving in, baby on the way and some low life goes and does that. It makes my blood boil to think that you bust your ???? to try and get ahead and social scum come along and do that. Victoria Police's finest were completely disinterested and claimed that it was a common occurance.

So, for anyone who does install one of these - make sure that it is not easily accessible, otherwise you will end up paying more than you bargained for.

The Bitter and Twisted One.

[OBBob]

I have heard this is coming quite common. I have installed mine low so that it is less visible. They would be pretty easy to remove in most instances. You might be able to buy it back of e-bay in a week or so??

[silentC]

I've seen people put steel cages over them dynabolted to the wall so that they can't be nicked. It must be common enough.

[Mcblurter]

HappyHammer, what's it like to have air conditioning? One benefit of global warming is that us Melbournians are still having beautiful 20 degree days in May!!!!
As for the theft issue, such things are often stolen by dodgy tradesmen (can't see some desperate drug user knicking a HWS for cash (crime) converters!!) so watch out for offers on certian items that seem to good to be true. Here in Melbourne there is often thefts from newly built places, sometimes they remove all appliances in the place. Many places are putting on security to ensure this doesn't happen.
Also guy who installed my ducted gas heater said to be careful putting it where it can be seen as they often get nicked as well.
Cheers
McBlurter

[HappyHammer]

McB,

I only use A/C a handful of times a year, I live in the most temperate region on the East Coast, rarely too hot or too cold.

HH.

[MrFixIt]

I've noticed a new trend on a few houses lately, which is to have mutiple instant HWS's.

That's a neat idea!

I guess to reduce the distance the water needs to travel in the pipes. They might have one near each bathroom or kitchen / bathroom if there is a distance between them.

I doubt that. It is more likely that they can utilise SMALLER heaters and consequently less gas for the immediate need of the location, eg kitchen/bathroom etc.

I guess in the scheme of things if building a new place it isn't a lot more money and I imagine you would lose quite a lot of heat from even the insulated pipes ... not to mention all the cold water watsed waiting for the warm to come through.

There is VERY little water wasted waiting for the heater to instantly heat the water. The water flow is restricted slightly to enable the water in the water jacket to heat. The water would begin to heat within the first litre of water. The "rest" of the cold water "wasted" is that water that sits in the HW pipe between the heater and the HW tap AND THIS applies exactly the same way to storage HWS.

BTW I used to (in another life ) service and repair instananeous gas HWS.

[OBBob]

Yeah ... good point. I hadn't considered having multiple smaller units. Not a bad idea if you can get gas to each of locations without too much expense.

Wish I had have considered that for mine as I have a bathroom on each side of teh hosue and the gas pipe runs right past each.

[silentC]

Wish I had have considered that for mine

Gas was out for us because we're on bottled gas but we thought about a small storage heater under the kitchen. In the end, we decided against it because of the cost and the extra electricity we'd be using, but it would be a much better idea with instant. Will be putting in an Enviro Save when his flick mixer rig is ready for market.

And I'm so glad to meet someone who knows it's "had have" not "had of".

[null & void]

There is VERY little water wasted waiting for the heater to instantly heat the water. The water flow is restricted slightly to enable the water in the water jacket to heat. The water would begin to heat within the first litre of water. The "rest" of the cold water "wasted" is that water that sits in the HW pipe between the heater and the HW tap AND THIS applies exactly the same way to storage HWS.

Digging up an old thread I thought a few of you might like this gadget.

http://www.rinnai.com.au/hotwater/ho...?whs=home&pg=6

I'd like to know the cost of them - certainly cheaper to install one of these rather than two hot water heaters and there's no wasted water waiting for the water to heat up.

[Bloss]

Digging up an old thread I thought a few of you might like this gadget.

http://www.rinnai.com.au/hotwater/ho...?whs=home&pg=6

I'd like to know the cost of them - certainly cheaper to install one of these rather than two hot water heaters and there's no wasted water waiting for the water to heat up.

What the? Probably worth reading complete posts - installing two of these is what the latter part of the discussion has been about . . . ))

I have had a Rinnai 2400 for 8 years and it is superb and saved a fortune on the electric Off-peak storage HWS we had before that - and we never run out of HW.

We are doing renovations and I had though of adding a new smaller one nearer the new ensuite, but instead used insulated pipe then additionally insulated using zip on black foam all the way.

A little loss from water in the pipe (but applies to all types as has been said), but works very well.

[null & void]

What the? Probably worth reading complete posts - installing two of these is what the latter part of the discussion has been about . . . ))

Huh, I'm referring to the Smartstart below the gas hotwater system in the picture - I've never seen it mentioned in the numerous gas hot water discussions here.

Does away with the need for two hot water systems by preheating the hot water in the pipes without wasting any water. So turn on the hot water tap and you have hot water. In my kitchen I can waste almost a minute of water before the water coming out is hot, and it's a common compliant from people with instantaneous gas systems.

[Bloss]

Huh, I'm referring to the Smartstart below the gas hotwater system in the picture - I've never seen it mentioned in the numerous gas hot water discussions here.

Does away with the need for two hot water systems by preheating the hot water in the pipes without wasting any water. So turn on the hot water tap and you have hot water. In my kitchen I can waste almost a minute of water before the water coming out is hot, and it's a common compliant from people with instantaneous gas systems.

Aaah - should take my own advice and read the full article eh!

Looks an OK idea, but as has been said above this is a non-issue really. The water in the pipes will be cold for all HWS not just instantaneous ones and the longer the run the more there will be sitting in the pipes hot when you turn off the tap too.

This is a trivial amount of water relative to the volumes most households use - 12mm or 19mm pipes hold little over the distances in most houses and this seems an expensive way to save a small amount of water.

If the user has already done the big saving things such as dual flush toilets, aerated outlets on taps, water-saving shower heads and made efficient all their garden and outside use (drippers, grey water etc) then this might be a further step, but will use more energy too - so more greenhouse gas and higher cost.

People tend to forget quickly what happened with their former system - and often the new one is in a different location. The first use of hot water takes time to clear the cold then less time on each subsequent use within a reasonable time.

That's why the recommendation for all HW systems is that they be sited as close to the kitchen as possible - that's where most hot water is used most often (few use HW in the laundry now). Since most blokes use the kitchen not all that much they tend to think the shower is more important.

Better insulated pipes improves the perceived re-heat time after the first use, but has no effect on the heating itself. In cold climates insulating inlet pipes can help a little if the under-house temperatures are very cold and the pipes are exposed to the air.

In a place like Canberra where the inlet water temperature can be around 12 degrees or less in winter so the Rinnai would be working harder to deliver at full capacity then - in summer the inlet temp can be up to 20 - so insulation and closeness to most used outlet becomes even more important.

IMHO a gimmick really, but I should have read it more closely before posting last time.

[MrFixIt]

Digging up an old thread I thought a few of you might like this gadget.

http://www.rinnai.com.au/hotwater/ho...?whs=home&pg=6

I'd like to know the cost of them - certainly cheaper to install one of these rather than two hot water heaters and there's no wasted water waiting for the water to heat up.

Interesting idea though NOT VERY PRACTICAL!

This will now waste gas heating ALL the WATER in ALL of the hot water reciculating line, NOT just the water between the heater and the tap that is turned on.

This NOW also means that ALL the water existing in the pipe is hot. When the hot water is turned off, ALL the water in the reciculating line cools down, waiting to be reheated AGAIN The priciple behind this provides a miniscule "storage" HWS which we are attempting to avoid, this is the reason the Instant HWS are being used.

In (my guess) 90% of the time, the cold water within the pipe is "used" within the mix of hot water for the purpose for which the tap is turned on.

The only way this device could be considered practical is if the recirculation is between the tap in use and the heater. This would mean a SEPARATE recirculatory line for EACH tap, NOT a ring main, obviously NOT practical