Virginia Tech

[silentC]

From SMH:

Authorities found a receipt for a Glock 9 millimetre handgun, bought on March 13, in Cho's backpack, which also contained two knives and a cache of bullets, ABC reported.

He bought his second weapon, a .22 caliber pistol, within the last week, ABC reported.

[dazzler]

Thats strange schtoo. Was it an organised crime issue/payback or another lunatic.

There are always two camps in these debates. One side waaaay to the left, the other waaaaaaaaay to the right.

The right think its there god given right to carry assault weapons and blast any native animal into oblivion, the left think its there mission in life to control everyone.

Our gun laws are pretty fair I reckon.

If you are a farmer and need a gun you can have one, or two or three whatever. Just register them, get a licence and secure them appropriately.

If you are a sporting shooter you can have one (similar guidelines to farmers security)

If you want to have a pistol/revolver etc you can join a pistol shooting club. Again you can have one.

If you are a security guard with the requirement and a licence then you can have one.

If you are mentally ill, prone to violence or criminally recorded then we really dont want you to have one. Fair enough i reckon.

Yes people can kill with knives, bombs, cars, rope ---- let the imagination run wild. But the thing about guns is they decimate people real quickly with very little ability to stop the killing and it also takes away the personal side of the killing. Actually driving a knife into multiple people is difficult both physically and mentally. Pulling a trigger is more remote.

FIL tells a story of his travels in the US. He was in a dept store in the gun section and was looking at a big revolver and asked the employee what he had to do to buy it. "Just put it in your trolley" was the answer.

Perhaps my view is somewhat distorted by the fact that I have been to a number of shootings and I can say they look nothing like on CSI Miami. Wee bit more bodily destruction.

[Rocker]

To show how lax the gun laws are there, the gunman was not even an American citizen; he was Chinese student, and had only been in the country about a year. What possible legitimate reason could he have had for owning two handguns?

Rocker

[silentC]

Not quite, according to Wikipedia:

Cho was born in South Korea and emigrated to the United States with his parents in September 1992 at the age of eight. He was a South Korean national and a permanent legal resident of the United States

But still...

[zenwood]

just Stop and think for a moment.
If the College allowed CCW and one of the students HAD a Firearm legally.
Then the outcome could have been very very different with the criminal shooter being the one taken away in a body bag...

Then Mr Cho's friend, after seeing Mr Cho shot down by our hero with the legal firearm, in turn shoots our hero dead with his own legal firearm. Shooter after shooter joins the fray . . . the police arrive and start shooting anyone they see using a weapon. The students react to defend themselves, and all take out their legal firearms . . .

Guns for all could indeed yield a different outcome.

[glock40sw]

Then Mr Cho's friend, after seeing Mr Cho shot down by our hero with the legal firearm, in turn shoots our hero dead with his own legal firearm. Shooter after shooter joins the fray . . . the police arrive and start shooting anyone they see using a weapon. The students react to defend themselves, and all take out their legal firearms . . .

Guns for all could indeed yield a different outcome.

G'day.

CCW permits are not easy to get. the applicant has to go through extensive training courses and the like prior to obtaining the CCW permit.
This training includes sections dealing with legalities of firearms use for protection.
It is NOT a case of everyone has one and just blasts away.

If a CCW permit holder has used the firearm, there are set procedures for actions after the fact ( being confronted by law enforcement officers). Firearm secured and the police made aware that the person has a CCW permit and has a firearm on their person.

So, do a bit of research of the subject, it is rather enlightening.

[Rocker]

Not quite, according to Wikipedia:



But still...

Hmm, it seems our media are giving us inaccurate facts.

Rocker

[Big Shed]

Hmm, it seems our media are giving us inaccurate facts.

Rocker

Now there's a surprise

[Brown Dog]

Steady on there Ern. You'll pop a vital vessel. No-one seriously suggests sporting shooters should be deprived of the primary means of pursuing their chosen sport or farmers from an effective means of vermin control. What people are saying is that there are too many guns too easily available in the USA. All kinds of loonies can get hold of them without a license or a back-ground check. The NRA has been very influential in watering down any safety mechanisms designed to make it harder for the general public to own a weapon for reasons other than sport/competition. For example if you go to one of the many gun shows in most states of the USA, there are two main categories of sellers in the market. One is the professional retailer. To buy a legal weapon from a licensed retailer, you must endure a waiting period and undergo a background check and the weapon must be licensed in the hands of the buyer. The other type of seller is euphemistically referred to as a 'collector'. These so-called 'collectors' can sell weapons (of any kind) to any one without a waiting period or background check and usually for cash, which makes the weapon untraceable.
IMHO the gun laws in this country are about right.

Sorry shedhand... I can name at least one person who has had a very good whack a trying to deprive "sporting shooters" of their sport....Mr John Howard.
If the new laws are not designed to discourage new shooters from taking up the sport, why is it illegal for a cop friend of mine who is licenced to carry a side arm in public to come to the range and under supervision of qualified range safety officers try out my single shot target rifle ???

Also if our new gun laws are so perfect why did it cost $500million to buy 22 semi auto rifles back off farmers and law abiding shooters.

Just to point out how ineffective the buy back was...consider that there was something like 200,000 (approx) now prohibited guns handed in in NSW which was only 7% of the semi auto/pump action shotguns and rifles imported into this country. Not to mention the less official figures of container loads of AK-47's (modified for semi auto only) that used to be sold for a $100 with a crate of ammo. (this may not be true, but I have heard this story from more than one older shooter...including my old man). The story is there were more of these imported into Australia than there was total guns handed in during the buy back.

Statistics show the buyback has had little effect on gun crime in this country.

I find it interesting that "gun control" is touted as the solution to preventing these kind of massacres. Dont get me wrong I think Americans have got a serious problem with their "gun culture". Though, I think that has a lot to do with large companies making a lot of money. Im all for "background checks" and cooling off periods but our laws went too far.

For example...because of a bureacratic stuff up, |I was sent a letter informing me that the Firearms registry had become aware that I was in posession of an unregistered firearm, and if I didnt rectify this situation immediately I could be charged and possibly sentanced to 14 years and a $20,000 fine. They had "become aware" of this because I had sent in my correctly filled out permit to purchase...about 12 months earlier. But because the gun was purchased in ACT which at the time didnt have registration...they considered the gun to be illegal....I have heard much worse storries than this too...how does this do anything to prevent crims or nutters using a gun to hurt or kill ????

Just tightening gun laws has proven to have little effect.

I cant help but think that if our government poured that 500million plus what ever it costs to maintan the bureacratic nightmare the they have created, into the health care system and in particular the mental health system....it might better serve to head of some of these kind of tragedys
but that is IMHO.

cheers
BD

[zenwood]

do a bit of research of the subject, it is rather enlightening.

Thanks for those details Glock. I assumed you were advocating even more prevalent gun ownership. Is that right? Or are you advocating stricter controls -- ?

[zenwood]

Not only puts 9/11(I hate that term!) in the shade, but also the number of people killed in Iraq.

Actually it doesn't put the number of people killed in Iraq in the shade. The latest rates of death according iraqbodycount.org is equivalent to one 9/11 attack in Iraq every 6 weeks (that was before the latest 'surge'). So the death rate in Iraq due to the invasion, sectarian violence, etc. --- described sometimes as 'civil war' --- is about the same as the death rate in the United States due to guns. Amazing.

[dazzler]

Yep

Very Stringent

http://www.ccwusa.com/site/index.php?&MMN_position=1:1


LEGALLY CARRY A CONCEALED FIREARM IN OVER 30 STATES!

Retired Seniors Personal Protection Multi-State Travelers Law Abiding Residents Private Investigators* Bail Enforcement Agents* Professional Bodyguards*

[silentC]

What he's arguing for is that the college should allow concealed handgun permit holders to carry guns on the campus. At the moment they are required to leave them in their cars. So if there happened to be such a person in the classroom, they could have taken matters into their own hands.

If you ask me, the whole gun control situation in the states is complicated and confusing. Each state has it's own laws. In Virginia, anybody is permitted to carry a gun, so long as it is not concealed. If they wish to conceal it, they must have a concealed handgun permit. I think I have that right, as I say it's complex and confusing.

[dazzler]

Hi browndog,

What is it that sporting shooters have been deprived of and if i wanted to join what can i use now?

not having as windup, just wondering?

cheers

[zenwood]

What he's arguing for is that the college should allow concealed handgun permit holders to carry guns on the campus.

If that's the case then I stand by the logic that my scenario tries to illustrate.